.38 Special and HP-38/W231

[ArchAngelCD]

Please list your favorite charge of HP-38/W231 for a LEAD Double Ended Wad Cutter. I have tried everything from 3.0 gr to 4.0 gr even though the recommended starting charge is 3.5 gr. I lost my paperwork so I don't remember how well the 11 different loads performed and I just don't want to do the tests over again. If I remember correctly 3.2 gr was the most accurate from a 4" M686.

PLEASE!!!! DO NOT tell me to use a different powder or what your favorite powder is. I want to know what your favorite CHARGE is for this powder and the bullet I asked about, nothing else!!

Thank you...

 

[RON in PA]

I don't use the double ended wadcutter, but use Speer's swaged 148 grain bevel based wadcutter (unfortunately discontinued) as well as Speer's 158 grain swaged SWC and commercially cast lead 158 grain SWCs. My charge for all these bullets with 231 is 4.4 grains. This approximates a normal pressure load and produces good accuracy. It would not suprise me if there are several sweet spots with 231 as far as accuracy goes.

Also on the rare occasions when I have loaded 148 grain hollow base bullet over 231 I use 3.2 grains. You might try that with your double ended wadcutters, probably a very comfortable, low velocity load.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've shot many-many pounds with 2.9gr under either a 148gr HBWC, or my own cast DEWC.
Gives 690fps from a 6"bbl.
Many NRA PPC National records have been shot with this combination.

For many years, the "standard" wadcutter loads from the factorys were loaded to 770fps and many broke 800fps till a small company in Ruleville,MS started having most National records shot and Nationals WON with their ammo. Their secret? Very careful assembly and Using Win-231/HP-38. The wadcutters were loaded with 2.9gr and the 158gr SWC were loaded with 3.6.

About early-mid 90's, first Federal in the GoldMedal and later Winchester reduced their velocities to try to match the accuracy.

Too bad,,,,,, to reduce costs and increase profits, Delta Precision switched to different powders and quality/accuracy suffered.

Now, Remington probably is producing the best "factory" .38spl wadcutter match ammo.

 

[DMZ]

I have a good stash of Speer 148 gr LBBWC's and my notes show my best load with 231 is 3.4 grains. This is a relatively mild load ~730fps.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

I have cast my own .38 Original Saeco Identical weight 4 cavity mold wadcutters and shot with 3 grains of WW231 accurately bench rested into a one hole group.

Paul Jones retired Original Saeco Co. Distributor
Ask me for an email history of the original Saeco Co. History.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Please keep it coming. I though 3.2 gr W231 was the most accurate I tested but 3.4 gr might be better. Can anyone else elaborate on these loads?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There has to be more than this. Along with Unique, W231 is one of the most popular powders. Additional feedback and recipes would be appreciated.

 

[Jim Watson]

It is going to be impossible for one of US to tell you what will be the most accurate load in YOUR gun. 3.2 and 3.4 grains of 231 are pretty well interchangeable with a wadcutter as far as the basic ballistics go.

Me?
I load 3.3. I was going for 3.2 but the measure came up on 3.3 and it shot so well I never bothered to change.

 

[yammerschooner]

+1 on Jim's comments about accuracy in your gun.

I must have missed where you told us what weight of lead bullet you are asking about.

Although I haven't run a full WC, I push 158 grain SWC/ Lee TL mold with 2.9 grains of HP38 in a SW model 36 (2 inch barrel). Caution: This is below starting data- so be very aware that this could very easily squib your gun and cause all kinds of issues. Speer 13 lists 3.6 as a starting load.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Just an echo...

ArchAngelCD--3.4 grains of W 231 pushing a 148 grain LDEWC here, too. Use in bullseye pistol league. It's more accurate than I am.

Be paranoid, be very paranoid, about double- or even triple-charges when loading such small amounts of powder.

The upside is that a pound of the stuff lasts close to forever.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Joe,
Thank you for the warning but since I'm using a auto indexing turret press it's hard (not impossible) to double charge unless I get extremely careless. It never hurts to keep extra safety in mind though...

Others,
There is no reason for some of you to be so condescending. I am quite aware all handguns will shoot slightly different from others. No reason to talk down to anyone here, even if I was unaware of that fact the way it was stated would have been insulting.

Although I haven't run a full WC, I push 158 grain SWC/ Lee TL mold with 2.9 grains of HP38 in a SW model 36 (2 inch barrel).

 

[yammerschooner]

taking the high road

I am sorry I offended you, but you should realize that my post was put up in the context of the following, where someone was bitching about the opposite:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=296990

Whenever I post outside of published data I try to make sure people understand what safe load data is whenever I post outside of it's limits. That is why I posted the scan- in both cases.

You asked for help, and I told you my load in relation to the information you provided. Since I don't know you from "bubba" I figured it was a good idea to be as clear as possible and cover all possible bases.

I actually went through the extra step of scanning the page, putting it in photobucket, and posting the image here, in order to put my comments in context- as I didn't want you to accept them blindly.

You should understand that sometimes what you see as condesending is the result of your audience not knowing whether the person you are replying to is a 16 year old kid, or someone who has handloaded for 20 years. Some of us try to take that into account.

Anyway, I don't care how you read the tone of my post, but I hope you realize you were unplesant in your response to what I deemed to be helpful. If not- carry on, and have a nice day.

I don't post here much. Maybe that is a good idea.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wasn't responding to your data, I was responding to you jumping on the band wagon telling me every gun shoots differently with that +1 or your's.

I refrained from trying to make you look bad when you posted data for a SWC bullet when I asked about a WC. The pressures are different because the WC sits deeper in the cartridge.

 

[yammerschooner]

You win. Have a nice day. Again.

 

[BigSlick]

Thanks for the info yammerschooner. It is very helpful to the rest of us.

Anyone that takes offense with your help in this post must read something into it that I don't.

I *much* prefer complete answers where knowledgeable loaders try to cover the bases.

I've been loading for well over 25 years now. While I'm pretty disciplined, I always find two heads are better than one where caution and safety are concerned. By all means, bore me, insult me or just make a post that allows for my being a completely tactless idiot where my safety is concerned. I *might* just be reminded of something that saves me a step, saves me some hassle, or saves me trip to the tool box or emergency room.

To assume my experince to be so vast that I know so much I can ignore a complete answer, from someone knowledgeable enough to add in a well intentioned caution, well...

That would make me a pompous, ignorant, stupid fool.

So thanks for the informative and complete reply

 

[snuffy]

TANSTAAFL! From the SF novel by Bob Hienlien, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. Spelled out it is There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch! In other words work up some loads and find out what shoots best.

Then loose the attitude, Dude!