.38 Special +P Ammo Tests - Today's Results (Pics)

[Kind of Blued]

I know many people have done this, and done a much more thorough, insightful job, but I figure the more points of reference one has, the better.

I shot what are possibly the three most popular .38 Spl. +P loads today into one milk jug of water (to cause expansion) which was in front of a stack of phonebooks (to catch the buggers).

There's a 9mm in there too.

These were shot from about 20 feet from a S&W 642. The 158gr. was from Federal if it makes a difference.

The Corbon went through the jug and about an inch into the phonebook. The Gold Dot went through the jug and bounced off of the phonebook, although it ripped a semi-circle through a couple dozen pages. I found it on the ground in front of the phonebook. The LSWCHP penetrated about 2" into the phonebook and expanded the most by far.

I tested each load for accuracy first, but was shooting from 15 yards and results were inconclusive, which is to say, I can't hit crap. Group size? All I learned is that I need to get some laser grips for the J-frame, stat.

Anyway, completely unscientific, but there ya go.

 

[JCMAG]

I'm glad to see the "FBI load" did well. It confirms that the older folks with years of experience have not done wrong by these newer ideas of expansion before penetration.

My S&W 442 will be loaded with LSWCHP until further evidence.

 

[Kind of Blued]

My S&W 442 will be loaded with LSWCHP until further evidence.

Yeah, that's how I left the range... It's hard to argue with a big fat mess of lead. I might do some further accuracy testing at closer ranges or with bigger targets, but it's a BUG, soon to possibly be a BUG to the BUG, and I can't imagine ever having to shoot the thing in self-defense past... I don't know... 5 yards? I'd bet there's a 99% chance it would be within 5 feet.

Here's one more photograph:

 

[C-grunt]

Hows the recoil on the Corbon? I had heard that they recoil pretty light and would like to switch my wifes ammo to that.

 

[bannockburn]

Kind of Blued

Thanks for the info. Did you take any measurements of the expanded bullets? I would be curious to se what their final expanded dimensions were.

 

[Shade00]

I probably missed it since school forced me to take a brief hiatus, but did you do similar tests with standard pressure ammunition? I would be interested in the results of the popular standard pressure rounds like Winchester's 110gr Silvertrips and Federal's 110gr Low-recoil stuff.

Great stuff, though. The FBI load is quite a nasty bugger.

 

[NVMM]

Kind of Blued
Thanks, Great Report!
I always like seeing this. Gotta love lead.
Can you tell me a little more on the 9mm.
Thanks

 

[joneb]

Great pics Blued, I'd like to know how the POI and POA differed with the .38spl loads out of your 642 ?

 

[fxstchewy]

Where do you get the FBI load? Is Federal the only place that makes them?

 

[9x19sig]

Remington, Winchester, and Federal still produce it. Remington is normally associated with being the best since it is said to have the softest lead of the bunch. But, apparently the Federal didn't do half bad.

 

[RON in PA]

Actually I think that only Remington and Winchester still sell the "FBI" load. Federal discontinued it a few years ago.

 

[jaydubya]

My 637 snubby is loaded with the Remington FBI load. I had also read somewhere that Federal no longer made this round.

Cordially, Jack

 

[RustyShackelford]

.38spl loads for CC/duty use...

I just bought 20 rounds of PMC/Starfire .38spl 125gr JHP loads. I looked into the Corbon DPX .38spl loads but the website/company wanted nearly $30.00 for 20 rounds.
For most LE duty/security/CC/etc use, I'd buy the Speer Gold Dot 135gr JHP 135gr, the Buffalo Bore 158gr lead SWC-HP +P or the regular CorBon 110gr +P+ JHP.

The Glaser silver safety slug or Magsafe plus .38spl loads would be good for limited use or special conditions...

The ExtremeShockUSA brand is low cost but IMO, is not very well made. I used a few loads about 2 years ago and would not suggest that brand.

RS

 

[indiandave]

Try Buffalo Bore 158 LSWCHP standard pressue. They will expand well in a snubby and it is easy to get good follow up shoots compared with +p ammo.

 

[spwenger]

As I Have Pointed Out...

...elsewhere in this forum, water is not a particularly good simulant of living tissue and tends to produce more expansion than would be seen in such media as calibrated ballistic gelatin or living tissue. The photos I have seen of "FBI load" (+P 158 gr. LSWCHP) bullets recovered in the hospital or the morgue don't show much expansion if they have been fired from two-inch barrels. Nevertheless, they did the job they were asked to do.

When I decided to download from 110 gr. Magnum loads for my daily-carry revolvers, I fired both the FBI load (Winchester) and the .38 +P 135 gr. Speer Gold Dot short-barrel load. I shot smaller groups with the Speer load but noticed that it had a slightly sharper recoil than the FBI load. I carried the Gold Dots until Cor-Bon's DPX load came off back-order. As noted above, the Cor-Bon DPX load is pretty mild in recoil. This load is no longer offered in standard-pressure because, at lower velocity, it sometimes keyholed.

 

[ARTiger]

I would wonder, looking at the DPX and HST 9mm, whether the distinct, sharp petals would have a "drill effect" in flesh as they're spinning at a relatively high RPM on impact.

Versus the rather smooth mushroom profile of the FBI loads and 135 GDHP. I believe this was the purpose of the black talon and ranger SXT loads from winchester.

Is there a cutting versus pushing difference in hollowpoint expanded profiles that could make a difference?

 

[Kind of Blued]

Hows the recoil on the Corbon?

I found out while doing these "tests" that I'm a really bad judge of recoil. I mixed mags of WWB 115gr. 9mm and the Federal HST 147gr. +P and couldn't tell the difference.

Did you take any measurements of the expanded bullets?

Unfortunately, I don't have the proper equipment. The best I could do is take a photo of the bullets upside down on a tape measure, which I might do in a bit. This cheap digital camera was driving me crazy trying to tell me how to take a photograph. I have 6x7 med. format cameras with macro lenses that let me do the work, but unfortunately that means developing film too.

did you do similar tests with standard pressure ammunition?

Nope. I'd love to do a lot more of this with proper ballistic gelatin and lots of loads, but unfortunately I really don't have the resources or time. I know Box o' Truth and others have done much better tests, but its just kind of fun finding bullets that YOU shot.

Can you tell me a little more on the 9mm.

The load is Federal's HST 147gr. 9mm +P and they're actually very reasonably priced ($19/box of 50, $23 for .45 ACP). From what I've learned online, these and the Winchester Ranger T's seem to be a couple of the most advanced bullet designs today, and as long as these work as intended, they look pretty effective. I'm hoping they'll run well in my new 1911 because, well, take a look:

That's a Fed HST .45... ouch.

I'd like to know how the POI and POA differed with the .38spl loads out of your 642 ?

I would too. Like I said, I should have grouped from 7 yards instead of 15-20 considering I couldn't even keep 5 rounds on paper. I'm not well-practiced with revolvers so it might be my grip or it might be the gun, but my shots were going off to the right, and not very consistently. I might try grouping tests with these three loads in a couple weeks when I go back home. My buddy has a 638 and shooting everything single-action would reduce a lot of the "user error" factor while still showing 2" barrel results.

Where do you get the FBI load? Is Federal the only place that makes them?

I know Remington makes an "FBI Load" and I think most people use theirs. This thread is the first time I've heard of Federal discontinuing it, but here's where I got it.

.38 Special 158gr. LSWCHP +P @ ammunitiontogo.com

I looked into the Corbon DPX .38spl loads but the website/company wanted nearly $30.00 for 20 rounds.

Yeah. I bought it from the above linked site for $27. I'm glad I didn't fall in love with it.

water is not a particularly good simulant of living tissue and tends to produce more expansion than would be seen in such media as calibrated ballistic gelatin or living tissue.

Agreed. You can tell that both the Corbon and the Gold Dot that I shot are expanded past the optimal amount. The lead on the LSCHP is soft enough to scrape away with a fingernail and I think in good faith that it would expand pretty well in tissue. The fact that it's well under half the price of the others makes it an easier decision for my broke college-attending self.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Yikes. Quintuple-tap?

 

[Kind of Blued]

Three-round burst.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Four-give me.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Hawaii five-uh oh.

Bad jokes.

 

[JohnnyOrygun]

Don't forget to check your Six

Anyhow, very nice reporting and nice pics also. Thank You. I keep a S&W Mod 60 next to my bed at night, so I might have to pick up some LSWCHP's; currently my bedside gun is loaded with Golden Sabers, but I have been wanting to pickup some extra ammo and the LSWCHP's sound like a good round at a good price. Being as the current economic state demands all decisions be made with some frugality...

Thanks for the excellent work.

Little John

 

[C-grunt]

Shade00...
Brassfetcher.com did some tests with the 110 federal I believe. IIRC it worked pretty darn well too. I have it loaded in my SP101 thats my bedside/wifes gun when Im not home. Im just a little skeptical of the lightweight slugs ability to penetrate through bone.

 

[NVMM]

Kind of Blued,
Thanks

 

[BADUNAME37]

Thanks from Inspector as well. Good information just looking at the pictures!