.38 Special vs. .380 ACP?

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One other advantage that revolvers have is the ability to reliably use superior bullets. Maybe my age is showing here, but I still can't stop thinking that in the realm of puny pistol-level ballistics, the semi-wadcutter is still the best thing you can use in a defensive load against living things. Expansion is fine, if it happens, but a semi-wadcutter's doing its work from the very first fraction of an inch.
There's no hydrostatic shock at these velocities, and penetration, especially in winter or other heavy-clothing situations, is absolutely essential.
I believe the SWC is a compromise combination of elements that works.
In .36 caliber, I have to like the Keith 158, expanded or otherwise.
 
Apropos of nothing, there is a hell of a difference between hitting a pig between the eyes or on the forehead with the house bang stick, and shooting one in the back of the head.
I had a Sig 230. Best semi auto I ever had. Never jammed once. It was a joy to carry. I sold it because of puny bullet performance.
 
.380 was good enough to stop Hitler. Of course, shot placement was pretty good.
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Hitler had two pistols -- one in .25 ACP and one in .32 ACP. He shot Eva Braun, but took cyanide before shooting himself.

So I'd say he proved you can commit suicide or kill a cooperative victim with those weapons.
 
So, um, Elmer, you're sayin' I'm better off with a standard pressure 158 grain load than a +P? I don't think so. Remember, a faster bullet of the same weight not only gains energy, it gains momentum. I shoot +P 158s in my .38.
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So, um, no......:rolleyes:

What I meant was a lightweight .380, at hyper velocity doesn't match a heavier weight .38 round. I was comparing the lightweight .38's that were popular back in the 70's, (and still are touted by those with financial agendas....), i.e. the 95-110 grainers, pumped up to faster velocities, did not work as well as the slower 158's. "Energy", is a pretty meaningless word in pistol bullets.

And yes, I carry +P in my .38's also...... Just not the super lightweight stuff....
 
the 38 special is better then the .380. however, the handguns in 380 are normally designed in a way that makes them a tad easier to conceal then a revolver in .38 spl.

Given how people are, id rather have a .380 with 12 rounds in it then a .25 auto or a pocket full of rocks.
 
I have both and I would pick the .38 in a defensive situation. Them heavier +P bullets mean sumpin. I'm with MCgunner on this one. I sure like my BDA .380 though, I'd like it a whole lot better if I could hit a barn with it.
 
I like the fit and balance of my .380 Walther PPK/S in my hand. Everyone who shoots the gun is really impressed with it's handling due to the thinness, the little finger rest, and the longer grip of the "Special" vs the shorter PPK. All this makes for a very nice conceal gun. This said, I'd put much more trust in a revolver in a larger caliber than .380 OR .38 ......... there is no substitute for a cannon.
 
.38 spcl. was once considered the ultimate defence round. When the .357 came out most people thought it was insane that anyone would need or use that much power in a handgun.
 
The .38 is much more versatile and you have many more bullet choices (all the way from 95grn to 200 grn bullets) compared to the rather limited options available for the .380.
 
"The .380's have faster reloads, less recoil, more shots, and the option of a proprietary thumb safety.

Both balance out enough that I'd carry a .380 BUG to a .38 Special."

Doug, just out of curiosity, if you are carrying a .380 as a back up, then I would think the tactical advantages of the autoloader in .380 do not outweigh the performance of the .38 since, if you needed to reload, you would do so with your primary firearm and not with your BUG. And more shots again isn't a factor (unless you're carrying a Beretta 84) since you have already expended all of your primary arm's ammo. Right? Or am I missing something? Unless you just shoot the .380 better. Personally, I can afford to practice more with the .38. Reloading the .380 is tedious at best.
 
"...and the option of a proprietary thumb safety."

Hmmm... Well, I suppose if your primary is a 1911 and your backup is a Colt Mustang, that would make a pretty good justification. I'm still going to go with the J-Frame though and hope I get all the bad guys with my 1911.
 
380 acp vs 38 spl.

I am not a specialist, But one thing I do confirm, i did some informal testing using pigs shoulder cover with jeans, using speer GD for bouth, I found the 380 acp penetrated better and expanded to over a 45 acp, also did some barrier test using books, wood, other materials just to see performance, again the 380 acp past the 38 spl, the guns used were a 2" barrel Snub and a Kel tec p3at :cool: so I defenetly feel good and safe carring a 380 acp, with any of the 2 for uptamisation in a self defence situation you should practice the doble tap.:)
 
I am not a specialist, But one thing I do confirm, i did some informal testing using pigs shoulder cover with jeans, using speer GD for bouth, I found the 380 acp penetrated better and expanded to over a 45 acp, also did some barrier test using books, wood, other materials just to see performance, again the 380 acp past the 38 spl, the guns used were a 2" barrel Snub and a Kel tec p3at so I defenetly feel good and safe carring a 380 acp, with any of the 2 for uptamisation in a self defence situation you should practice the doble tap.
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:what:

Good grief! It hurt my brain just to try and read that.
 
I had a PPK/S for a short while and also a Mod. 60 at the same time I decided that both of them served the same purpose so i was going to get rid of one. I kept the 60 not because i felt it was such a better round but the ppk would jam on me now and then the 60 always gave me 5. as I stated before it seem small auto's just don't like to shoot for me even my wife kel tec p32 jam on me she don't understand as it have never jam on her. I don't think it the round you should think about with these smaller weapons but how well the weapon shoot for you. Holes in a body is holes in the body no one like them.

be safe
 
I am not a specialist, But one thing I do confirm, i did some informal testing using pigs shoulder cover with jeans, using speer GD for bouth, I found the 380 acp penetrated better and expanded to over a 45 acp, also did some barrier test using books, wood, other materials just to see performance, again the 380 acp past the 38 spl, the guns used were a 2" barrel Snub and a Kel tec p3at so I defenetly feel good and safe carring a 380 acp, with any of the 2 for uptamisation in a self defence situation you should practice the doble tap.
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I find that hard to believe. It defies both logic and most other testing I've seen. The .380 can't even meet minimum penetration standards unless used in the full metal jacket variety. The .38spl can do it with standard, pure lead, un-jacketed, hollowpoints.
 
For 380 here are the Buffalo Bore loadings, which appear to be "the biggest, baddest, mostest" Sorry, I have been grammatically inspired by one of the previous posters.

380 Auto +P

Item 27A/20: 100gr. Hard-Cast FN @ 1125 fps 280 ft. lbs

Item 27B/20: 95 gr. F.M.J.-F.N @ 1125 fps 267 ft. lbs.

Item 27C/20: 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot J.H.C. @ 1175 fps 276 ft. lbs.

For comparison, here is the Buffalo Bore 158grain offering timed from a 2" barrel.

158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P.--G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.)

The 38 and 380 are nearly identical diameter. There is more kinetic energy AND more momentum from the 38 special rounds. Be it ballistics gel, a bad guy or a pig shoulder wearing jeans the 38 will penetrate deeper than the 380...given the same bullet design.

In the end it will be the same concealed weapon balancing act that comes into play. "Concealability" vs caliber vs reliability vs ammunition capacity vs ease of reloading vs accuracy. For me, I like a j frame in the pocket...or one in each front pocket.
 
I had an LCP, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, I sold it and went back to my Colt Agent and then I bought a Smith 642 to compliment the Agent. That's the first reason why I don't carry .380 for personal defense.

The second reason is, I fail to see how driving a 100-grain flat nose bullet at 1061fps (BB's rating from Kel-Tec), over a 158-grain lead hollow point at 854 fps is better (BB Standard Pressure Load). So, you're driving a lighter bullet at higher velocity, but it's not a bullet that expands, when the latter bullet has a proven track record in expansion. Furthermore, if you can handle it and you don't suffer bullets jumping crimp, you can run BB's +P 158-grain LHP and shoot a heavier bullet at the same velocity as the +P .380.

Now, the .380 Kel-Tecs and LCPs are really nice for carry, but heck I don't mind carrying my 15 ounce 642 or 17 ounce Agent in my pocket at all, so I'm not gaining much from the carry factor of the Kel-Tec or LCP.
 
I've owned several different .380acp pistols, still have my BDA (and I can shoot and hit well with it) and also a Makarov (my CCW). never owned a .38spl snubby but have shot friends snubbys many times, like them (most all guns too!). after shooting much into used plywood targets made by 'layering' them to check effectiveness I can say that the .38 158gr SMJHP does penetrate slightly more and takes a slightly bigger chunk out the back side exiting. but a warm-loaded .380acp 102gr Golden Sabre ain't much behind and I wouldn't care to get hit with it for sure! seems that follow-up shots are faster for me with the semi-auto is the biggest advantage besides concealability.
real world advantage? take your pick IMO.
 
My .380's;
Browning BDA380
Beretta 85F
Beretta 70s

My .38's;
SW 64 4"
SW 64 2"
SW 67 4"
SW 60 3"
SW 640 ND

The only .380 I would carry, and feel comfortable with is the 85F. As for my .38's, any will fill the bill. All the other WIZBANG talk is moot. Its all about shot placement. If you can reliably put them where they count every time you draw and fire, nothing else matters. The person or animal being shot isn't going to know the difference.
 
My carry piece is strictly a "leave me alone" gun. I think .380 should accomplish that in most situations. The P3AT is so small that I always have it with me, whatever the weather or clothing. A J-frame is just too fat by a bit for me. I wish there was a .38 SPL or 9MM P3AT; I'd carry it.
 
The .38 is a better round in stopping someone/something, however the .380 does have some really nice easily concealed pocket guns. the P3AT you could put in your front shirt pocket with a piece of paper in front and no one would know you where carrying it.

Both are a HECK of a lot better then fists :)
 
i have a couple friends that carry .380's, but I carry .38 spl. My 642 loaded with 129 grain +p hydrashocks hits exactly what its aiming at every time. Plus a friend of mine accidentally shot himself in the knee with a .38 spl and lemme tell ya it did quite some damage, traveling downward behind his kneecap, through several inches of flesh before finally coming to a rest (and shattering) his tibia (lower leg bone). So I'll take a .38.
 
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