.38 Special woods ammo.... I want penetration

[C-grunt]

Im trying to find some good woods ammo for my revolvers. I want to stick with .38 Special. I want something that will have lots of penetration. Something like a hard cast SWC or wide flat point.

They make stuff like that for the .357 but why not the .38?

Am I going to have to reload for this setup?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

They don't make the heavy bullet ammo for the .38 Special because the bullet can and has stuck in the barrel because of the low pressure generated buy a .38 Special. Even the reloading manuals have eliminated the heavy bullets from their .38 Special load data.

Actually, a 180gr or 200gr bullet pushed by only 17,000 PSI wouldn't be very effective. At the minimum you would have to push it to at least +P pressures and hope it's enough.

 

[C-grunt]

I have no problem with a 158 grn round but cant find anything besides LRN or some form of HP.

 

[Southern Shooter]

Buffalo Bore

Check them out. They have what you want.

 

[Southern Shooter]

Never mind

I just went to Buffalo Bore's website. They have stopped carrying the round I was thinking of. Sorry.

 

[MikeJackmin]

I started with these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=390786

But they are discontinued now. I've switched to the Buffalo Bore standard-pressure, short-barrel, hard-cast wadcutters. Only 150 grains but they have a hard, flat nose and are supposed work nicely in the little .38s I usually carry in the woods.

If I want more than that, I carry the .45 blackhawk. Buffalo Bore makes some very serious ammo in that caliber if you like flat, heavy bullets.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Just noticed these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=166117

 

[MMCSRET]

I also like the 38 Special for a hiking/walking around/easy to carry and shoot gun. I like heavier bullets. I cast Lyman 358429 from Wheel weights , they drop at 172 gr. sized and lubed. I load them to +P pressures in +P marked cases and use them in my Colt Official Police 4" and my S&W M10 HB 4". Performance is good and penetration seems to be good, easily handled in both revolvers. I have used them in my Trooper Mark III, also.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Try the Lee C358-158-SWC cast from wheel weights and dropped from the mould into a bucket of water to harden it.

 

[jfh]

Vern's on the right track for the bullet--load it up to +P / CIP pressures, and you can get it running up to about 950-1000 fps, I'll bet, from a longer barrel.

OTOH, you could simply buy some Buffalo Bore 20As--but check with them to see if they think that bullet is hard enough for deeper penetration. I do NOT consider a LSWC-HP for woods carry for animal defense, but the fact remains that this is probably the hottest factory 38 Special heavier round available.

Jim H.

 

[zxcvbob]

I have a Lee 158 grain flat-point bullet mold that looks mighty nice; I just got the mold and haven't shot it yet. The bullet has a very wide nose with sharp corners -- almost looks like a cross between a wadcutter and a truncated cone. I cast a bunch using dead-soft lead with about 1/2% tin added to get good fillout and the previously mentioned sharp corners. It may become my new HD bullet (after I use up that box of swaged SWCHP's)

If soft lead doesn't give enough penetration, use hard lead and drop the bullets in water from the mold.

Or, just buy a box of the 158 grain SWC's from mastercastbullets.com

 

[Pistol Toter]

How about a Remington RS386 158gr SWC

 

[MCgunner]

I cast the bullet Vern suggested, mine's a tumble lube version. I push it with 5.0 grains of Unique. I think it's plenty. I've mostly carried a .357 in bear country, but I tote a little 3" Rossi 68 pretty often around here. I usually load with wadcutters, but this SWC load would stop most anything I'll bump into from humans to snakes to a head shot on a hog or gator. It's a very accurate little gun. I don't really worry about much that would hurt me other than humans and I wear snake boots for snakes, but I have had problems with feral dogs and they can be a danger. The .38 is plenty enough to take out dogs and around Texas, other than humans, feral dogs are about the worst thing to worry about, as if I ever worried about such things, but ya never know. I have been attacked by dogs before.

Am I going to have to reload for this setup?

I don't guess ya HAVE to, but reloading is fun and saves you money and allows you to concoct about anything you can't find on the shelves within reason.

 

[Landric]

There is a guy on Defensivecarry.com working up some 200 grain SWC loads for .38 Special. He has a series of posts on his work, and its pretty interesting. The Lee 2nd Edition manual has some data for 200 grain bullets in .38 Special and .38 Special +P, but its the only manual of many that I have with 200 grain bullet data.

One of the police loads back in the revolver days was loaded by Winchester using a 200 grain bullet, it was called "Super Police" IIRC.

Then, of course, there are the various heavy .38-44 and Keith loads using 173 grain and heavier bullets and heavy charges of 2400 and like powders.

For specialty ammunition handloading is almost always necessary. I find that kind of load development a lot of fun, and its yet another great reason to be a handloader.

 

[Erich]

Really sorry that you don't handload.

I carry two penetrative .38 Special hardcast loadings in my older steel framed .38s when I hike. Both use published load data from the late '60s. One uses 2400 to throw 195-grain RN bullets at 840 fps from a 1 7/8" J-frame (I don't have the data on the longer barrels here at my office, but they, of course, go faster in 2", 3", 4" and 6" tubes) and the other uses SR 4756 to throw 158-gr SWCs at 1185 fps from my 3" Chiefs. (A friend pressure-tested this last loading - it's above present-day SAAMI specs even for +Ps.)

Anyway, I'm with Landric in thinking that handloading probably provides the best answer to your problem.

 

[C-grunt]

Thanks guys. I do have a reloader, but with the new kid I havent gotten around to getting the dies and other supplies for the .38/.357 yet.

 

[Blue Brick]

Winchester Cowboy loads.

 

[junior geezer]

I have a Lee 158 grain flat-point bullet mold that looks mighty nice; I just got the mold and haven't shot it yet.

cast very hard, these are my bullets of choice, in both .38 spl and .357. i load over 5.5 gr Green Dot for my 6" .38 spl; an excellent .38-44 loading. shoots right at 1070fps and is SO MUCH more mild on the gun than the "late 60s" (speer 8) SR4756 loadings.

i also load for the 200gr LRN in .38spl, but those don't have the penetration of the Lee 158. and no they don't stick in the barrel. nor did the 180gr jacketed .38-200 brit (.38 S&W case) stick when fired out of the 5" Enfield or Webley.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

Speer makes a 158gr +P flat nosed FMJ as target ammo meant to replicate the feel of shooting gold dot SD ammo. I would imagine the copper jacket and +P velocity would make for quite a penetrator, though I dont have any first hand experience with it.

 

[Saint Dennis]

Why not wadcutters? You can get them factory and should cut a clean hole in varmints

 

[Erich]

Not real heavy, and with the full meplat probably not real penetrative, even when loaded to decent velocities.

 

[woad_yurt]

A hard, double ended lead wadcutter with a gas check will drill right through and can be driven very quickly if you're gun is up to it. You can pump some flyin' +P out of Ruger revolvers. In my Model 10 next to my bed, I use just 4 gr of HP38 and a 148 gr HBWC. Once you use a gas check, though, you can drive plain ol' solid lead bullets very quickly.

C-grunt: Consider a reloading setup. For $300, you can pop out any kind of .38 SPL round. It's really, really worth the initial outlay. When you have a bunch of ammo always flowing, you get to shoot a lot; you'll become a much better shot more quickly.

 

[Erich]

I throw hardcast wadcutters (148-gr) at 950 fps from my snubs and use this as a standard defensive loading, but I don't think the bullet shape or the weight is all that given to penetration.

 

[RON in PA]

Standard velocity round nose ammo has a bad reputation as a defensive round, but is an excellent penetrator.

 

[C-grunt]

Standard velocity round nose ammo has a bad reputation as a defensive round, but is an excellent penetrator.

Yeah but like you said, its got a bad reputation as a defensive round. I think a heavy hard SWC or flat point would give good penetration but still have a decent tissue destruction profile.