38 Spl +P+ LRN

[Dewey New]

I bought a old, white box of 38 spl LRN at my local, thinking they were standard loads. The end label just said .38 special LRN.
Today, looking at the head stamp codes I read WCC +P+ 81.
So I think I know this: Winchester Cartridge Company, nickel plated brass, 1981 mfg.
What I don't know is what pressure is +P+?
I really don't care to shoot +P in my guns, much less something approaching .357 pressures.
Thanks!

 

[westernrover]

This is the best answer you will find: https://revolverguy.com/all-about-the-38-special-p-and-38-special-p/

It was known as the "Treasury Load" for the US Dept. of Treasury.

23,500psi -- above +P but no where near 357 Magnum.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/38-special-treasury-load/389102

 

[Dewey New]

Thanks, I found that article, but it made no mention of Lead Round Nose factory loads in +P+.
EDIT: I pulled the box out and looked at every case head. They are a mixed bag of companies, all nickel. So I was sold a box of someone's reloads.
I'm not going to shoot them in any case.

 

[AJC1]

Thanks, I found that article, but it made no mention of Lead Round Nose factory loads in +P+.
I'm not going to shoot them in any case.

I'd shoot them in a 357 but not a 38.

 

[Dewey New]

See my edit above: they are reloads.

 

[westernrover]

If you can't return them, you could pull them and use the brass, primers and bullets. It's smart not to shoot them as is. I wouldn't do that either.

 

[Walkalong]

Yea, someone just used +P+ cases, no telling what pressure they are, but my guess is standard pressure. No guarantee though. As posted, if they are commercial reloads, they should be at least safe to shoot in a .357, should be.

 

[N555]

About how I load any 38spl brass that comes into my possession, an estimated 25,000psi.

 

[fxvr5]

This is the best answer you will find: https://revolverguy.com/all-about-the-38-special-p-and-38-special-p/

It was known as the "Treasury Load" for the US Dept. of Treasury.

23,500psi -- above +P but no where near 357 Magnum.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/38-special-treasury-load/389102

The treasury load is a 110 grain JHP. It was not a LRN bullet.

 

[Ranger99]

. . So I was sold a box of someone's reloads.
I'm not going to shoot them in any case.

Very wise decision ^ ^ ^

There's a lot of pinheads that claim
to be "reloaders " especially on yoofloob.
Lots of unsafe procedures and silly
stuff
As posted ^ ^ previously
Pull em and reuse the primed cases
and bullets for some target loads

 

[Ranger99]

Shame if you can't get a refund

 

[wcwhitey]

My issue this was from an LGS? Not a good practice for them. They should absolutely return your money

 

[lordpaxman]

I’m really surprised it didn’t say “remanufactured” or something to indicate it wasn’t a factory load. If it was a generic white box I’d have been suspicious as I saw these at a gun show once and the price was too good to be true.

While it could be safe, better to tear it down, at least you don’t need to deprime them.

 

[derek45]

pull the bullets, dump the powder, save the brass

 

[Rule3]

Show a picture of the actual box and the rounds in it.

 

[ParallelCode]

Thanks, I found that article, but it made no mention of Lead Round Nose factory loads in +P+.
EDIT: I pulled the box out and looked at every case head. They are a mixed bag of companies, all nickel. So I was sold a box of someone's reloads.
I'm not going to shoot them in any case.

I wouldn't shoot them either.

 

[AJC1]

Due to the edit and it being a substantial one, pull them. Anything factory is a different category than home brew.

 

[Dewey New]

Thank you all for the information.
The old box was torn and I tossed it.
Originally I loaded one of my revolvers, a M36-1 and shot them, and one cartridge FTF with a lightly dimpled primer. I loaded that cartridge in another gun, M10-5 and it fired. They all felt like a standard load.
Only later when I inspected the others and saw the +P+ I worried I could have damaged the M36-1. I'm probably OK there.
I'm not a reloader, but I have been saving all my brass and probably will gather some gear in the future, when my factory stash runs out.
Thanks again!
David

 

[.455_Hunter]

The original .38-44 Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman loading was essentially a 158 gr LRN at +P+ pressures, but was never loaded in brass so marked. Later +P+ loads actually marked were 110 gr and 147 gr JHPs. I concur that the topic of this thread are reloads.

 

[N555]

The 38spl load I use to protect my treasure was inspired by the treasury, but I use a 125gr bullet and only have a 357, no 38spl guns here.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thank you all for the information.
The old box was torn and I tossed it.
Originally I loaded one of my revolvers, a M36-1 and shot them, and one cartridge FTF with a lightly dimpled primer. I loaded that cartridge in another gun, M10-5 and it fired. They all felt like a standard load.
Only later when I inspected the others and saw the +P+ I worried I could have damaged the M36-1. I'm probably OK there.
I'm not a reloader, but I have been saving all my brass and probably will gather some gear in the future, when my factory stash runs out.
Thanks again!
David

You mean, you don’t reload YET.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The 38spl load I use to protect my treasure was inspired by the treasury, but I use a 125gr bullet and only have a 357, no 38spl guns here.

My home loads are heavy and slow .38Spl. 200gr moving ~750fps from a 3” snubby. It’s a handful but very controllable. I don’t have pressure testing equipment so who knows where it is in the specs. No signs of excessive pressure and it’s a tested book load (Lyman) so it’s probably safe enough for an emergency situation.
Let’s keep that in mind, please: without pressure testing gear, any speculation about loads is just guesswork.

 

[lgjhn]

I was in a similar situation. There was no way was I gonna pop those rounds off in my revolver.
So I just pulled the bullets, dumped the powder onto the flower bed, and saved the brass & primers.
Melted the pulled bullets in with the lead I used in my next bullet-casting session.

 

[Riomouse911]

When you finally do start reloading for your .38, if you buy a mixed-brass lot of fired cases you will find literally dozens of headstamps and several different cannelure locations on the cases mixed together. I make stacks of mild to medium pressure .38 loads using mixed brass with good results. Just yesterday I located these half-prepped .38 cases on the back of the shelf that needed priming. (The brass ones were done by the time I took the picture.) There must be 30 or more different headstamp/cannelure combos in these coffee containers.



WCC +P+ or military .38 headstamps are not a common thing to be found today as compared to 25 years ago, but they are still found out there on occasion.

Stay safe.