.38 Spl wadcutter expanding, seating and case charging questions

[ric426]

My current setup is a stock Lee Pro1000 (say what you will, it's all I have and for the most part I like it) with .38/.357 dies and Pro Auto Disk. I like the Pro1000 but have lost faith in the priming and charging functions and am having expanding and seating issues.

With Speer 148gr. HBWC's I can't get the Lee expansion die set to where I can start the bullet into the case straight enough that I don't have to guide each one into the seating die by hand. Plus, there's enough lead shaving that it causes problems with build up inside the seating die. Believe me, I've tried every set up and adjusting procedure I can find.

Is there something like a Lyman multi-expanding die that will allow easier bullet placement and reduce the shaving and still work with a case activated powder measure? If a multi-expanding die with solve the seating and shaving issues I'll activate the powder measure by hand if necessary.

I'm already decapping with a single stage press and cleaning first so that I can keep the dirtiest parts of the process in the garage and out of the house. I quickly lost trust in the priming system on the Pro1000 and starting priming by hand. Now, after dealing with a squib yesterday, I've lost all confidence in the Pro Auto Disk and am considering changing my reloading procedures to the point that I'll basically be doing everything in single stages in batches of 50 or so. Here's the revised procedure I'm thinking of and would welcome any suggestions and/or critiques from those with more experience.

1. Decap with single stage press.
2. Clean
3. Prime by hand
4. Size, expand and charge on the Pro1000 if I can find a die that will multi-expand and charge simultaneously. If I can't multi-expand and do case activated charging, change to a better powder measure that will handle small (2 -2.5 gr.) charges reliably and activate it by hand.
5. Remove charged cases and place in reloading tray for inspection before seating.
6. Seat and crimp on single stage press.

About the only thing "progressive" would be sizing, expanding and charging in one pass, but at this point I prefer confidence in my ammo over speed and convenience.

Any comments, criticisms or suggestions?

 

[mbopp]

I got a turret press to speed up 38 / 357 loading. My method so far is to clean, resize-decap, rotate the turret, and expand / flare the case. Priming, charging, and bullet seating are done off the press (Lee hand primer.) Seating / crimping is then done as the last step.
If I find a reliable way to prime and charge on the press it should speed things up.

 

[Walkalong]

If you are getting lead shaving you are not belling enough. I do like the Lyman M type die, which Redding copied, as far as there ability for seating bullets very straight, but the expander you ave now will work.

If adjusting the expander/powder die down further will not expand the case enough, call Lee and they will replace it.

I prefer to hand prime vs trying to prime on the press as I load.

I tumble the fired cases, run them through the press to size/deprime, hand prime (No PP cleaning), and then I run them through the press to load them.

Welcome to THR

 

[ric426]

If you are getting lead shaving you are not belling enough. I do like the Lyman M type die, which Redding copied, as far as there ability for seating bullets very straight, but the expander you ave now will work.

If adjusting the expander/powder die down further will not expand the case enough, call Lee and they will replace it.

Actually I tried more bell and while it did reduce the shaving, it didn't help seat the Speer wadcutters. I haven't measured them yet, but I can only assume that they're slightly larger than the Hornady HBWC that seats enough by hand to go in straight with the basic expansion from the Lee die. The problem with the Hornady HBWC is the dry powdered lube they use. It makes a heck of a mess on the press and leaves a big plume of smoke when fired. The Speer wadcutters have a nice dry film lube that's very clean.

I don't think the Lee expander is defective, it's just designed to do a simple flare rather than the stepped expansion like the M die. I'll call Lee to see if they offer anything like that or have any other suggestions.

 

[villemur]

Have you measured the diameter of your bullets? They're not oversized, are they?

Regarding the powder dispensing, what powder are you using? I had similar problems using Unique - it didn't meter well enough in small quantities to work with the Auto Disk. I switched to another powder, and the problem was solved.

Lastly, the priming. I guess if you're not going to de-cap and size on the press then priming by hand isn't that big of a deal. My experience is that large primers work a lot better on the Pro 1000 than small primers. I'm assuming that you had problems with the primers not feeding correctly? If so, lubricate the primer slide (with a dry lube) and keep the primer tray full. Also, I believe that CCI nickled primers are slipperier than brass Winchesters.

I recently converted my Pro 1000 over to load .45 acp, and I love it. I use Clays powder, CCI primers, and 200 grain lead bullets. I find that I have to really pay attention to keep things flowing smoothly, but it cranks out the ammo.

 

[ric426]

Have you measured the diameter of your bullets? They're not oversized, are they?

I haven't measured them yet and I know that's probably one of the first things I should have done. I'll do that as soon as I get home. There's definitely a difference between the Hornady and Speer diameters though and I prefer the Speer bullets, so the case expanding will be an issue regardless. I just got off the phone with someone at Lee who is sending me an expander plug from a .38 S&W die which he says is slightly bigger than the .38 special expander plug. That may take care of the issue. If it does and gets rid of the lead shaving I may send them a couple of sample bullets and have a seating plug made specifically for the Speer bullet. I think I'll see if I can get the chamfer on the seating die mouth opened up more too. The guy at Lee said that they're making the new dies with less chamfer now to work better with the bullet feeder attachment.

Regarding the powder dispensing, what powder are you using? I had similar problems using Unique - it didn't meter well enough in small quantities to work with the Auto Disk. I switched to another powder, and the problem was solved.

I'm using Bullseye. I've got a pound of Red Dot too, but Lee doesn't recommended it for smaller charges. I've got a micro-disk adapter for on the way for the Pro Auto Disk and I'll see if that gives any more consistency with the smaller charge. At this point though, I'll probably still do the seating after inspecting each case for a charge because my confidence in the Auto Disk isn't enough to not check. I tried doing that with the Pro 1000 before seating each bullet and it was just too cumbersome, even with the third retaining clip removed.

Lastly, the priming. I guess if you're not going to de-cap and size on the press then priming by hand isn't that big of a deal.

After having a few unprimed cases that got charged with powder and leaked it on the press because of primer feed issues, I decided I'd prefer to prime separately. I'm decapping and cleaning in the garage anyway and I figure that in the admittedly unlikely event of a primer going off while priming cases, it'd freak my wife out if it happened in the house. If that happened I'd be doing *all* of my reloading in the garage.

 

[918v]

I use a RCBS 38/357 expander for my HBWC. I am able to start Speers by hand with zero shaving. Your Lee does not expand the case, just flares the mouth. You should get something that does both- expands and flares.

 

[JoelSteinbach]

I'm using the speer HBWC, with 2.9 Titegroup in my Dillon, I have to bell the mouth a bit larger than with other bullets, and then I do not seat it in all the way but leave it at 1.3". This gives me a very gentle accurate round thats a lot of fun to shoot