38 Super Glocks? Hi Powers?

[ugaarguy]

Ok folks, I need your collective expertise here. My interest in 1911s has lead me into looking at the 38 Super round. Honestly I'm hooked with the energy this round produces from Cor-Bon's premium loadings. I know from research that, since the 38 super is a semi-rimmed 9x21, that you can simply drop a 9mm (9x19) Bbl into a 1911, use the same mags and shoot away. I'd personally like a pistol with higher capacity in 38 Super. I've found that Jarvis makes 9x21 Bbls for Glocks. What I can't get an answer on is what caliber Glocks are the easiest to convert. If the extra cartridge length doesn't cause problems I would think the 9mm models would be easiest since the extractor radius would already be correct, as would the width of the mag follower and feed lips. Otherwise, what are the best caliber Glocks to start with for this conversion? Also if one could get a custom Bbl made is the conversion possible on a Hi Power? Any knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[meh92]

Will the 9mm Glock platform be able to take to pounding from the hot 38 Super cartridge?

 

[ugaarguy]

I don't see why not, with a heavier recoil spring. The 40 S&W and 357 Sig chambered Glocks use identical frames to their 9x19 counterparts. The 40s and 357s just have the appropriate barrel, extractor, and increased weight recoil spring. I'm just tryin to find out if 9x21 will feed reliably from 9x19 mags. I may have to trade in the model 22 and get a 17 or 19, order the Jarvis barrel, get a heavier spring and find out. I've been thinkin of goin to a 9mm Glock anyway for the economy of factory ammo. I know 38 super is expensive, but thats more of a tinkering thing than a practical thing. Like most shooters I just can't leave well enough alone.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Have you thought about just looking into a 10mm Auto? If you get a Glock 20 and decide you want more velocity than the 10mm, you can get a barrel for the 9x25. You can also drop in barrels for the .40 and the .357 SIG, and none of these require you to change magazines.

I am not really familiar with the ballistics of the .38 Super, but I am pretty sure it's not enough to make a 135 gr bullet @ 1600 fps or a 200 gr bullet @ 1250 fps pale too much and the 10mm Auto is fully capable of doing both.

 

[ugaarguy]

MTM,
Good suggestion. I'll have to see if I can handle the 20, not recoil, but grip wise. I have fat hands with short fingers, befitting of my short wide Irish descended self. As for ballistics the best factory load I've seen for 38 Super is the Cor-Bon DPX pushing 125 grs at 1350 fps & 506 ft lbs. The 10mm load is 155 grs at 1200 fps & 496 ft lbs. Splittin hairs at that point. I did a little more lookin and the guys at GlockTalk say the 38 Super is too long for standard 9mm mags so its best to do the convetsion on a 10mm Glock. They say you have to find certain generations of 10mm mags that work, otherwise the extractors and ejectors work fine. Further, though 38 Super is dimensionally 9x21 mm, there is a 9x21mm round in Europe. The 9x21 is sold mostly in Italy, where you can still have a pistol, but not in 9x19 since its a "military" caliber. Apparently the Beretta 92 is sold in 9x21 as the Beretta 98 for the Italian civillian market. Even more interesting is that the guys over there cite a Glock book that refers to 3 G19s in 9x21 made for US Naval Investigative Service agents who were operating in Italy. Thought I'd share the random knowledge with everyone here.

 

[only1asterisk]

38 Super is longer than the 9x21 by 2mm.

You can do nothing in the Glock with a 9X21 that you can't do with a 9x19. The restriction in the glock is the maximum loaded length that will feed from a magazine. Loaded to the same length the 9x21 has no advantage.

If you want a high capacity super 9 you may want to look into rechamering a Para in 9mm to 9x23 Winchester.

David

 

[Jim Watson]

.38 Super is 9x23SR and is NOT dimensionally 9x21 which is an Italian rule beater for repressed people not allowed to own a "military" caliber firearm.

Super OAL is too long for any 9mm P platform I know of. It certainly won't go in a BHP and I think converting a 10mm Glock is way more trouble than it is worth.

 

[Grayrider]

Tanfoglio already makes an 18 shot 38 Super. Buy a Witness in 38 Super, some mags, and you are good to go.

GR

 

[ugaarguy]

I am an idiot, thanks to all for setting me straight on the dimensions of the 38 super. The Witness sounds good, can you carry them cocked and locked? How difficult is the Para conversion? I just want a high cap 38 super, but DA/SA actions aren't my cup of tea.

 

[Grayrider]

Yes you can carry them C&L. I prefer not to as they lack a grip safety, but many people do. I tend to go with half-cock and safety on with my Tanfoglios.

A Para conversion is also an option. More expensive, but should work. Then there are also the fancier Witness Elite models in 38 Super if you want to spend some dough. A base Witness should run around $325-350.

GR

 

[49hudson]

Just for your info., Double Tap Ammunition Co. loads 135 grain 10mm @1600 f/s from a 4.6" bbl.. And 165 grain 10mm @ 1425 f/s from a 4.6" bbl..

 

[MTMilitiaman]

And for the record, Corbon's 10mm loads are midlevel at best. They download them to make their .400 Corbon look better. The 10mm Auto is easily capable of pushing that 155 gr bullet at least 200 fps faster than Corbon loads it.

 

[LeonCarr]

If ya want mucho gusto power, get a Glock 20, and get a Bar-Sto barrel chambered for the 9x25 Dillon . The 9x25 Dillon is a 10mm necked down to 9mm, and uses the same magazine and recoil spring. The last loading data I saw had a 115 grain bullet moving at around 1600 fps.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[ugaarguy]

Inquiry Background

Here's my reason on starting this thread. I'm kicking around options on my first 1911 purchase. I like the 45 ACP, but I guess the competition history and just being different made the 38 Super appealing to me. Not looking to spend a ton of money on a first 1911 the RIAs in 38 Super appealed by me. I also found out that going from 38 super to 9mm on a 1911 is very easy. Shooting cheap practice 9mm also appealed to me. I cut my teeth on Glocks and they have never let me down; so having the same caliber options in a Glock to match the 1911 seemed like the next logical step. I've also got a desire to pick up a Hi Power after I get the 1911. I've always liked the BHP, and think its JMB design and FN Mfr. would be the perfect bridge gun between the soon to be purchased 1911 and currently owned FAL. I didn't think 38 Super in a BHP was really feasable, but since I was askin about it in Glocks I figured I'd see if was possible in a BHP as well. I've learned that if you can think of something with guns someone has probably already done it or figured out its not worth doin. I had to ask and find out.

Thanks to everyone here who has given me answers to these crazy questions.

 

[Kor]

If you want a Glock with switch-barrel ammo versatility, I suggest you get one in .357SIG. The "hi-test" .357SIG ballistics should be right up there with .38Super, and you can get conversion barrels so the same gun can fire cheap 9X19mm for practice. I've had a 9mm conversion barrel for my .40S&W Glock 23 for several years, and it works perfectly as long as you use 9mm Glock mags. I don't find it necessary to swap out the .40S&W extractor or ejector for practice, but since it's so easily done, I'll swap the parts for peace of mind during an IDPA match. If interested, check out www.lonewolfdist.com

You could also accomplish the same thing with a .40S&W Hi-Power, but I'd expect to lay out several C-notes in parts and gunsmith labor to fit a custom .357SIG barrel and another 9mm barrel to the gun(it's not offered in .357SIG by FN/Browning AFAIK, and you can't up-chamber a 9mm BHP without at least using the heavier .40S&W slide).

 

[meh92]

I've seen .40 cal BHP's with conversions which allow for .357 SIG and 9mm. It might be an option for you.

 

[RyanM]

Actually, the .40 and .357 Glocks use the same recoil spring as the 9mms. All that changes are the slide, extractor, barrel, and ejector.

 

[wbond]

Taurus makes a really nice .38 Super

It is actually small enough and very thin to conceal and carry.

Beautiful gun. Its narrow width is the same as my Firestorm .32 ACP. Wow.

My local gun store says $450 for a new stainless steel version.

I doubt my arthritic hands could handle the recoil, but this gun is way cool.

My experience with Taurus is that they are excellent in every way.

11 rounds, 30 oz, 1.4" wide. Barrel is 4.25" long. This is a .38 Super you could actually conceal and carry. The beauty of this gun has to be seen.