.38 vs. 357
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Riomouse911
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Another poster asked what a carbon ring was.
To the OP; the only real advantages to loading .38 vs .357 for the .357 revolver is cheaper brass and a slightly lower powder charge to reach your intended velocity.
While I load and shoot .38 Spl. 5 to 6 times more often than.357 Mag, I also have a passel of .38 revolvers to go with my .357’s so it’s a more flexible option for me.
Of all ya got is a .357 revolver, go ahead and load the .357 cases for it. There is a gob of load data for .357 Mag listing just about any conceivable bullet/powder combo, consult a good load book and have at it.
. Stay safe.
Just a point for future reference and to avoid confusion
Most of us figured that you meant .357Mag and .38 Spl. I don't have a lot of heartache over leaving out the decimal points in the caliber designation, but you should be aware that there is a completely different cartilage named the .38S&W which is completely different than either of the cases you are referring to. The .38S&W utilizes a larger diameter bullet and case
I've been shooting and reloading over 50 years.
Carbon ring? Never had that issue even after firing a few hundred 38s. I do clean my revolver on a regular basis.
More accurate by reducing the bullet jump from case to forcing cone? I don't know about that. I've heard it a lot but have never seen it. I really don't believe it though. If it were true a S&W K frame 22 would be the most inaccurate revolver there is with the distance the bullet has to jump.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I got the impression the OP has an excess of .357 Mag brass. If so I don't blame him for wanting to load it as a .38 Special.
As for carbon rings, I have never ever had a problem, I clean my guns after every range trip. While I know you really don't want to use a bronze brush that much on the cylinder holes what I did was buy nylon brushes which are very easy on gun parts but still clean well.
As for carbon rings, I have never ever had a problem, I clean my guns after every range trip. While I know you really don't want to use a bronze brush that much on the cylinder holes what I did was buy nylon brushes which are very easy on gun parts but still clean well.
AJC1
Member
How are the bronze brushes hurting anything? I believe this idea is in part of the cleaning issue. I do understand that some people prefer chemical over mechanical cleaners but leading has been cleaned by mechanical scrubbing with a chore boy since forever.
The 38 case has been used to shoot some bullets in 38/357s that are to long in a 357 case. Some bullets like the 38156 has crimp groves for both. If you like wadcuters they have many versions, and a few have real crimp groves before the last driving band so flush seating isnt required. The factory uses a canalure on the case to prevent movement which I have no capacity to replicate. I prefer a place to roll crimp.
Me too...
Jes my experience; I have loaded many, many different bullets in my 357, using 38 Special brass. I have seen no difference in acuracy from the "long jump" of a 38 length case in a Magnum cylinder. I have fired a few boxes of 38 Special in my 357 and then fired some 357 ammo and no chambering problems, but I don't let my revolvers go 1,000 rounds without cleaning. One of my favorite house gun loads is a150 gr. cast DEWC over a max load (not+P) of W231, for my 38 Special. I have fired many in my 357 with equal accuracy, running close to 1k fps. I would not recomment the OP purchase and use a swaged HBWC unless he intends to use "classic" HBWC loads (2.8-3.0 Bullseye or equivalent). Perhaps a cast DEWC or an Acme coated 38 Special wadcutter (I loaded some fairly hot over Universal in 357 Mag brass. worked quite well)... http://www.acmebullet.com/38-CAL-Lead-Cast-Bullets?product_id=550
I have also loaded a lot of 357 Mag. brass with 38 Special data. I didn't try any "formula" I just remembered the 38 loads in the 357 Mag. brass will produce a lower velocity than listed for 38 Special in my manuals...
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kmw1954
Member
My very first gun was a S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum all decked out with target front and rear sights and target Hammer and Trigger. Boy I sure was proud of that gun. That was 1980...
Loaded nothing but Speer and Hornady cast lead bullets from 148gr WC to 158gr SWC in it all with 357 brass. most of it loaded just above 38Spl levels but well below Magnum levels.
On a dare one time my friends while sighting in their deer rifles had water balloons set up at 150yds. So I laid that thing over the hood of the truck and let one rip. My friend sighting the shot said it was 3" high and left. I couldn't see the balloon as it was completely covered by the barrel.
Loaded nothing but Speer and Hornady cast lead bullets from 148gr WC to 158gr SWC in it all with 357 brass. most of it loaded just above 38Spl levels but well below Magnum levels.
On a dare one time my friends while sighting in their deer rifles had water balloons set up at 150yds. So I laid that thing over the hood of the truck and let one rip. My friend sighting the shot said it was 3" high and left. I couldn't see the balloon as it was completely covered by the barrel.
.38 S&W Special or as most abbreviate to .38 Special. 38 S&W (without the Special) is a different animal altogether.
Advantages of .357 M? There are certainly advantages, even disadvantages, but until you qualify your needs, I wouldn't be concerned at all. No problem to load M brass across the power spectrum to approximate Spc or full-house M rnds. Accuracy differences come to light after dialing many other variables long before cartridge differences.
GooseGestapo
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Be sure to get .38Spl/.357mag dies.
A .357mag seater/crimper die is too deep internally to crimp a .38spl die.
I found that out in 1977 when I turned 21 and bought myself a new S&W M28.
My RCBS .357mag dies wouldn’t crimp .38 cases. Still have the die set , box, ect!
A .357mag seater/crimper die is too deep internally to crimp a .38spl die.
I found that out in 1977 when I turned 21 and bought myself a new S&W M28.
My RCBS .357mag dies wouldn’t crimp .38 cases. Still have the die set , box, ect!
AJC1
Member
Swimming against the tide I like the lee factory crimp die. I run a 38/357 rcbs set but crimp with the lee so I dont have to change my adjustment on the seating die. I have always seated and crimped in separate steps. The sizing ring almost never is a factor and I load quite a bit of lead. I appreciate a lot of people hate it, and it's my singular experience with the fcd.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I didn't say a bronze brush would hurt anything. I said some people are concerned that cleaning that much might be harmful. That's why I suggested a nylon brush.
AJC1
Member
Which validates their unfounded consern with a substandard solution.
Just went to the range today with my K frame model 13. With smaller boot grips and the 3” I usually shoot low power 38 spl equivalent, yet in 357 brass. This time I took Skeeters 13.5 of 2400 and 158gr . Oh man! A smidge much, yet great in the rifles. Skeeter loaded it in a 38spl brass due to lack of the 357 and a abundance of the 38spl. Obviously in a 357 handgun.
No need to cause a chamber ring. Yet I recall a good way to resolve that was to take the cylinder out…. soak in a cup of hoppes #9, then Brass cleaning brush on a drill. Low speed and it would clean up nicely. Yet why would ya want to go thru any of that. I like lower charges of unique in 357 brass.
No need to cause a chamber ring. Yet I recall a good way to resolve that was to take the cylinder out…. soak in a cup of hoppes #9, then Brass cleaning brush on a drill. Low speed and it would clean up nicely. Yet why would ya want to go thru any of that. I like lower charges of unique in 357 brass.
Soonerpesek
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AzShooter1
Member
I normally shoot wadcutters in .38 cases and have no discernable difference between them and when I use .357 cases. You just have to play with your powder to get a load that will work with the other cases.
Yes, there is a problem with the carbon ring. A good scrubbing with a chamber brush will eliminate it but if you have a lot of .357 cases go ahead and use them.
Wadcutters shoot much better out of my guns at low velocities, then do SWCs. YMMV.
Yes, there is a problem with the carbon ring. A good scrubbing with a chamber brush will eliminate it but if you have a lot of .357 cases go ahead and use them.
Wadcutters shoot much better out of my guns at low velocities, then do SWCs. YMMV.
BJung
Member
So, do you use the same powder for a target .38 load compared to a .357? Maybe a slower powder would be better lie AA5 or unique compared to AA2 and BE?
flexible
Member
hi everyone, flexible here (the original poster) thanks for all the advice and i just thought of a new wrinkle on this question.
Since i have a lot of .357 brass and only a handful of Federal .38 Special would it make sense to buy 38 S&W brass? Any advantages? what about dies?
thanks
Since i have a lot of .357 brass and only a handful of Federal .38 Special would it make sense to buy 38 S&W brass? Any advantages? what about dies?
thanks
GeoDudeFlorida
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Nope. Different chambers completely. The shorter cases of that chambers dimensions are .38Long Colt and .38Short Colt. You’re way better off buying .38Spl brass.
Yep, .38 S&W cases won't go into most .38 Spl and .357 Mag cylinders.
Nylon is fairly abrasive, and a million or so cleanings would wear the cylinder, I'd rather use bronze brushes to clean chambers/throats on cylinders, and I do. I don't shoot short brass in any guns, but I do use a bronze brush to clean occasionally. I have brass keys that my hands have worn terribly over two plus decades, my Square D key got so worn from hands/jingling in pocket/unlocking&locking panels I had to replace it.
So, soft things can wear hard things, but it takes a lot of reps, and I don't think we need to worry about cleaning chambers with bronze brushes even when motorized unless we are way over doing it for decades. Cylinder steel is fairly hard compared to brushes, bronze or nylon, so unless you are really heavy handed, and are really overdoing the cleaning and clean too often, I wouldn't worry too much.
Nylon is fairly abrasive, and a million or so cleanings would wear the cylinder, I'd rather use bronze brushes to clean chambers/throats on cylinders, and I do. I don't shoot short brass in any guns, but I do use a bronze brush to clean occasionally. I have brass keys that my hands have worn terribly over two plus decades, my Square D key got so worn from hands/jingling in pocket/unlocking&locking panels I had to replace it.
So, soft things can wear hard things, but it takes a lot of reps, and I don't think we need to worry about cleaning chambers with bronze brushes even when motorized unless we are way over doing it for decades. Cylinder steel is fairly hard compared to brushes, bronze or nylon, so unless you are really heavy handed, and are really overdoing the cleaning and clean too often, I wouldn't worry too much.
AJC1
Member
Now the guy that started making stainless bore brushes had to be in cahoots with gun manufacturers.... what a terrible idea.
GeoDudeFlorida
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I don't know about all these other folks but I really have to TRY to make "carbon rings" that thick enough to feel, let alone stop a round from chambering. I had a 66-3 for years that was kind of my go-to heavy wadcutter gun. It has nice sights and a Hogue grip that just felt good. I ran probably close to a thousand 148gr. BNWC through that gun (yeah, I know, that's before breakfast warm-up for some of y'all) loaded up with 5.5gr. of Unique. That's a nice 25 yard load, BTW, but nothing wrist shattering. At least as many Speer 148gr. HBWC - coated with that gooey resin or whatever it is they use - with 3.5gr. of Bullseye - again, that's a nice load with a little more bark than the typical 2.8gr. No "carbon rings". Ever.
Maybe it just depends on the polish on the chambers? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Beats me.
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