.380 bullets in a .38?

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Buck13

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For reduced noise/recoil rounds, how stupid would it be to use light XTPs intended for a .380 in a .38 Special revolver? Would .355 85 grain bullets stabilize at all? Not really concerned with accuracy at living room distances (and I have a small living room) but obviously if the bullets tumble at 5 yards, that fancy hollow point is doing no good.
 
It can be done, sure (.002 difference in size of course). My question is why bother? 110, 125, 140 and 158 grain bullets are all proven performers, not to mention available in quantity.

I think the sound woukd actually increase if anything though, so you're not doing yourself any favors IMO.
 
Do they still make that plastic ammo? I had some of that once. You just
stuck the bullet back into the case and you used a primer to drive the
bullet. They were accurate at across the living room distances.

Zeke
 
.380 85's are too light and too small. Wouldn't stabilize well either.
However, at 5 yards, a tumbling bullet would be an asset. The fancy HP requires velocity to work properly though. A .355" bullet will very likely tumble out of a .38 anyway and just annoy a bad guy.
Have a look at the 90 grain cast data on Hodgdon's site. That's as light as I can find anywhere. Close enough to 85 too. Max loads run a tick over 1,000 fps. Most well under that.
 
would it be to use light XTPs intended for a .380 in a .38 Special revolver?
Couple of problems you will run into right up front.

1. The .002" smaller bullet will give you very little case neck tension, if any.

2. Auto pistol bullets have no cannelure, so there will be no place to crimp too when loaded in a .38 Special.

Your best bet for bullets, if you can find them is the Speer Short-Barrel 135 grain Gold Dot.

Loaded over a healthy dose of Power Pistol, HS-6, or Unique, they will give you all you can get out of a .38 Special.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/produc...old_dot_personal_protection_short_barrel.aspx

Gel test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k890Rio2oBY

rc
 
If you can get enough neck tension you can make them work for "reduced noise/recoil rounds". Use a taper crimp die to remove the belling, or don't bell at all, which should ensure good neck tension on all but the thinnest brass.

They will probably stabilize just fine at short distances.

So if you have a bunch you just want to use up, give it a try.

That said, I would sooner use a premium bullet like the 90 Gr XTP in 9MM at high velocity, or just save them, and buy a light plated or Hi-Tek coated bullet for light recoil .38 Spl loads.
 
I lighter bullet will neither reduce recoil or noise if you follow the normal increase in powder charge published for a lighter bullet. In fact, as you increase velocity beyond the speed of sound, you get more noise. If you want reduced recoil and noise, your better of reducing your load with a heavier bullet.

Hollow points don't expand well at low velocities. The reason for smaller .357" bullets is to achieve that velocity in lower pressure loadings. You can buy 90 and 110gr JHP bullets in .357" with a cannelure to achieve this without resorting to loose fitting bullets made with semi-auto limitations.
 
Not being a mindless automaton, I would not be increasing the powder charge to maintain a constant peak pressure (as per standard practice) as the bullet weight decreases, since that would be the opposite of my goal. I do have some slight understanding of reduced loads (just skip to the last post in the thread for the whole story):

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=700533

Hornady claims XTPs will expand down to 800 fps. Maybe it's true. I'd be looking to get in the 800-900 fps range. I'd agree that the 110 grain XTPs are not that much worse to shoot at this velocity than the .380 size.

But I figured there must be something I was missing here, other than the fact that there is no 85 grain XTP (not sure how I got that idea), and so there is. RC's point about neck tension is well taken. OTOH, if they hold together at all, it would be possible to crimp over the shoulder or base of the ogive, so at least the .380 bullets wouldn't pull in a revolver.

My next bright idea was that there are 75 grain and 100 grain .359 cast wadcutters available, which would make a neat, painful hole without need for expansion. Finally it occurred to me that in the "things I already have" category are some 125 grain plated TCFP .359 bullets. Not quite as light as I wanted, but this evening loaded a half-box of those over 3 grains of Red Dot with the bullets upside down, to give the rare boat-tailed wadcutter bullet :cool: lightly crimped over the base of the bullet. Not a good shape for fast reloads, but that's not a concern. I hope to get to the range on Sunday to give them a try at paper.

The point of all this is to make something that a skinny 15 year old girl who doesn't like practicing might shoot in an emergency without excessive muzzle jump or hearing damage. While there would be much more effective SD options, I have in mind the old joke about .22s: "You may only be shot with a .22, but you're still getting shot."
 
I've used many light 9mm .355" bullets in .357 brass. Skip the expander, flare only if necessary, seat deep enough so you can crimp in the nose. They worked great for me.
 
The point of all this is to make something that a skinny 15 year old girl who doesn't like practicing might shoot in an emergency without excessive muzzle jump or hearing damage."
Go ahead and give up on that second target before you start. ANY firearm she shoots indoors "in an emergency" that has enough power to be effective for SD is going to cause at least some hearing damage. Even the little .22LR will sound piercing when your ear is a foot away from a hallway wall. It may not be .357 loud, but it's still going to hurt. That should be the least of your concerns. Just make sure she has a load that is effective and that she can handle.

As noted above, looks like your doing just that.
 
My experiment with light a light recoiling 38 was moderately successful.

Using a Ruger LCR, I slowly decreased Trail Boss powder to 3.0g under a 125g plated (Ranier) flat point.

At 3 grains I'm not worried about sticking the bullet in the 2" barrel and I can put all 5 in the size of a quarter at 7 yards. I certainly would not put this load in a longer barrel though, as the possibility of sticking a bullet is too great.

The load has virtually zero recoil and is closer in experience to shooting a black powder pistol without the cloud of smoke. Truly Mouse Fart territory.

But back to the original intent... A skinny 15 year old might be more inclined to enjoy target practicing with a 22 vs a 38 no matter how light the load.
 
Not sure of your objective, but if you want light low recoil 38 loads, without getting stuck bullets, you need to start loading lead bullets. Use a light loaded wadcutter. It even makes more sense as a defense load as opposed to hoping for a HP to have reliable expansion at low velocities. An unopened hollow point is a RN bullet.

My very petite wife enjoys shooting my 6" GP100 with 700fps wadcutters more than my Ruger Single Six. Recoil is not much different.
 
I've seen hickock45 use 38 Super bullets (.356) loaded in 357 Mag cases and they shot fine. I wouldn't expect top accuracy, but you probably wont even notice the difference.
 
I wouldn't expect top accuracy...
You might be surprised.
If you seat them straight, (not always easy with short, round 9mm bullets) and give them a good quick kick with a fast powder, they do quite well.
 
size your cases a second time with a 9mm sizing die. then use the 9mm expander die to bell the case. should give you good neck tension for those bullets.

murf

p.s. only do a partial size with that 9mm sizing die. go down just a bit past the base of the seated bullet.
 
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