.380, decent defense gun or not?

[MCgunner]

The Kel Tec P3AT gives the .380 a reason for being, otherwise, you can get a 9x19 just as small as most .380s. I don't rely on .380, myself, but have a small one just for the occasional time I have to resort to carrying it. I don't keep it loaded in the house, though. Smallest caliber I have in the house loaded is a .38 special loaded with 158 grain +P JHP. .380 is a little light on penetration to give me confidence in it, frankly.

 

[choochboost]

The 2003 edition of Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's Streetstoppers rates the .3800 JHP's much more effective than FMJ .380's.

There's a couple guys with a lot of credibility.

I am not aware of any .380 JHP that is able to meet the testing protocols of the FBI and IWBA.

Dr. Gary Roberts had this to say:

"Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is not acceptable for law enforcement use and most knowledgable agencies prohibit their use. For those with no other options, choose FMJ's."

Do your homework.

 

[shamrock404]

Here are two sites that you can get the information on the round of your choice including the .380

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index.html

http://www.firearmstactical.com/index.htm

You all have a nice day and a wonderful week

 

[Lonestar]

"Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is not acceptable for law enforcement use and most knowledgable agencies prohibit their use. For those with no other options, choose FMJ's."

Do your homework.

I really hate when people throw out the Police penetration requirements and assume that a round is inadequate for home defense. Lets be honest Police need to shoot thru cars, windows and other barriers. Your average citizen will not need that type of penetration. In a Home defense situation, you need something that will not over penetrate and something that will not be DEFECTED by bone. FMJ is a POOR choice for a one stop drop, and for home defense. Most people in the military hate 9mm FMJ and consider it a poor stopper, compared to a 9mm JHP or a .45 FMJ, and you want to recommend a .380 FMJ??? You want a bigger wound channel and not alot of over penetration. The .380 JHP does expand poorly out of a short barrel like a P3at, but it does expand, and penetrates just and inch or 2 shorter than a standard 9mm JHP round.

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10.html

 

[scurtis_34471]

Keep in mind that .380 105 grain Remington Golden Saber comes pretty close to the ballistics of many 9mm rounds. It fires both accurately and reliably from the Bersa Thunder, although I cannot speak for other gun. Corbon DPX is also an excellent and effective round in .380 and plain old Corbon +P JHP isn't half bad. One of the saving graces of .380 is that I can reliably rapid-fire the entire 8 round magazine of my Bersa Thunder .380 CC through center mass at 15 yards. That should be enough.

 

[DawgFvr]

I actually enjoy carrying my Kel Tec 38T...it is so tiny and lightweight...it just melts into my pocket. It is, however, a deep concealed, last ditch, no-where to hide, unable to run, last resort, extension of my fist. You did say Home defense right? For crying out loud...go get yourself a shotgun for HD. Get yourself a pump 12 guage...inexpensive, simple and the most effective short range, home defense weapon made this side of the universe.

 

[MikePGS]

If you can shoot it well then use it. However that being said, like a few other people have already recommended if its home defense your talking about, your better off selling the gun you have, or maybe even trading it to get a 12 gauge shotgun and load it up with buckshot. Even a single or double barrel might be superior. If you have a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot and you can shoot it right (which i'm guessing you can based on you saying your experienced with rifles and shotguns) then your set

 

[The Amigo]

380

I traded an old snubby for a Kel tec due to the 3 extra rounds and smaller and more light weight package and newer ammo out there that expands and penetrates reliably. Remington in the 102g seems to be a good round offering decent penetration and expansion. Will expand up to .57 Not comparable to a 44 mag but will kill you deader than dead if placed correctly. if you can afford something bigger for home defense and keep the .380 for concealment do so. If your limited to only that gun in particular find the best ammo you can and you will be lethal still. Remember Hitler got shot with a smaller less powerful round than the .380 and it did manage to penetrate completely thru skull. Lots of people out there in the street have been shot and ain't around to tell about it. My other gun is a .45 but I'm to lazy to carry that block since i discovered the pleasure of carrying my skinny kel tec

 

[Ala Dan]

F.I.E. = *

Based on MY observations, only~!

 

[Wolfgang]

isn't F.I.E. Florida Inport and Export and not a firearms manufacturer?

The when bankrupt in 1990 or so?

 

[hrgrisso]

The .380 has it's role

I agree that the .380 is not my first choice to carry. But don't let anyone tell you it has no place. If you have a .380 you like, get comfortable with it. I carry mine, but mine has a special role as a backup to my 9 or my 40 or my .45... Sorry but I change things up to keep it spicy (this comment in no way indicates that the author believes one should change systems frequently, as that can lead to problems in the event of needing to use the gun). So just find your guns role and let it rock. Remember, a .380 can be a fun little plinker, if a tad pricey. That's a role, so buy a few bricks of ammo (or case you verbage...) and learn yours!

 

[MICHAEL T]

I have one of those terrible made in Italy inported by FIE 380's. Well it is as accurate as my Bersa or PPK/S and hasn't jamed .A open slide like a Beretta has enough weight to be controlable by almost anyone in rapid fire. Like Federal and Corbon HP. I really see no big problem with it . In fact I have used as a nightstand pistol. Get over the Importer mark Its a well made pistol Mine is a Tanfoglio and as I remember they make some other pistols people here hold in high reguard. Just because FIE put their mark on it doesn't make junk.

 

[Lonestar]

Mike,

Consider yourself lucky. Most FIE are jam-omatics, but I know a few people who collect ravens, FIE and Titans and somehow get them to work well. The First Generation of Kel Tec P3at were also Jam-omatics, but 2nd generation are ALOT better. Hi Points are usually junk too , but some people find them reliable.

Out of all the 380 guns you can get for under $250, Bersa Thunders are the best buy. Out of the box you will have zero problems, and it is more suited for home defense.

 

[Exmasonite]

i have a bersa .380. It's a very fun, functional little gun. I can shoot very well with it out to 12-15 yards which is probably 2-3 times the max distance i'll ever have to use it, if necessary.
I carry it from time to time b/c of its size, esp. ankle carry. I also like the integral locking system that my XD's don't have so if i'm going somewhere where i can't carry, i feel better leaving the gun "deactivated" in the locked glovebox.
so basically, the .380 fills a niche for easy carrying. i figure any incident out in the real world will be extremely close range and i'll probably be more "reserved" than when I'm at home defending my "castle".
there, i'll be packing the service XD with 12+1 in .40 S&W or even 30 rds of the .223 if necessary (god forbid).
so, for CCW, sure. For "Home defense", pull out all the stops.

 

[cookekdjr]

Tanfoglio = basic, no-frills, reliable gun. They make the CZ-75 clones.
.380 = marginal defense caliber but can get the job done in a pinch.

I'd go the range one day a run a few boxes of fmj ammo through the gun. If it doesn't jam, keep it. Use the same range ammo for self-defense; that way you'll know that the gun will go bang when it has to.
Then, I'd start saving my money to get a hi-quality larger caliber gun down the road.
Just my two cents.
-David

 

[JShirley]

Hi, this is John. Welcome to THR.

A .380 is a compromise that many people like for a daily concealed carry firearm. Try yours out before using it in this role.

For home defense, either a short rifle that can be handled rapidly (especially semiautomatic, pump, or lever-action) or a shorter barreled shotgun should be chosen. If you choose the rifle, pick your ammunition carefully; there are good defensive choices in everything from pistol-caliber carbines up to high-power rifles. With a shotgun, I personally use reduced recoil slugs for social purposes, but do not go lighter than #4 buckshot.

Regards,

John

 

[tinygnat219]

.380 is about the bare minimum for Self-Defense in the right loads. It's also a handy round for those that suffer from arthritis or are scared of recoil. While not my favorite cartridge in the world, I do carry a P3AT as a BUG.

 

[boerseun]

It's a free gun - get some proven commercial brand ammo (about 100 each) and go to the range. The one that feeds and fires 100% should be your carry round. Go get a boat load of them and put about 1000 rounds through it or until you fell 100% comfortable with the handling of the weapon.

.380 is a good round. Some people say it is not as effective as a .45, but ask yourself one question....is 'n 45 effective if you don't have one or if you miss with it? Work with what you have.

Not sure about the make of gun, but it is better than tossing rocks

Congrats ana dhave fun!

 

[denfoote]

Unfortunately, in today’s world too many people think the .380 is a marginal or poor defense round. This round has been around for a very long time and does a very good job. If you do your part it will do it's part.

There is something I have always wanted to ask every time this comes up!!

When did the 9mm kurz go on strike???

Please give me the date that it stopped working??

Are contract negotiations still ongoing or are we in the midst of a lockout???

 

[Todesengel]

better than a stick imho but not something i would pick if i had a choice.

btw; if you don't have a choice get the best ammo available like Winchester Ranger or Remington Golden Saber.

 

[choochboost]

I really hate when people throw out the Police penetration requirements and assume that a round is inadequate for home defense. Lets be honest Police need to shoot thru cars, windows and other barriers.

We're talking about terminal performance, not ammo that is capable of penetrating car doors. If we were, FMJ would be the way to go anyway.

Your average citizen will not need that type of penetration. In a Home defense situation, you need something that will not over penetrate and something that will not be DEFECTED by bone.

JHP is designed to stop and not overpenetrate. But some JHP suffer from inadequate penetration.

FMJ is a POOR choice for a one stop drop, and for home defense. Most people in the military hate 9mm FMJ and consider it a poor stopper, compared to a 9mm JHP or a .45 FMJ, and you want to recommend a .380 FMJ???

One stop drop? Keep dreaming. Of course the military does not like the FMJ...it's FMJ. And Dr. Roberts is recommending FMJ for a .380, because it's a .380!

You want a bigger wound channel and not alot of over penetration. The .380 JHP does expand poorly out of a short barrel like a P3at, but it does expand, and penetrates just and inch or 2 shorter than a standard 9mm JHP round.

No argument from me on wanting the bigger wound channel. Most .380's are short barrels. If .380 JHP doesn't meet the minimum penetration standards of the FBI and IWBA, then it doesn't meet the minimum penetration standards. I refer you back to Dr. Roberts statements about .380 JHP performance above.

 

[obxned]

I like the .380. It's suprisingly accurate and ideal for a REALLY small CCW gun. However, it is not the best choice for home defense. Keep the .380, but buy a shotgun: it's inexpensive and effective.

 

[Lonestar]

Chooch....from personal experience I seen most suspects check themselves in hospitals after getting hit with FMJ rounds ranging from .32acp to 9mm, with JHP they are usually incapacitated or dead. Sorry buddy but Dr. Roberts is a flaming idiot. Bigger holes = Better results

 

[nemoaz]

It is almost unfathomable to me that some one would be offering recommendation to a newbie to use FMJ.

If the thing won't reliably feed a certain HP, try another. If it won't feed any HP's, ****can it. You don't need 18-24" of penetration. 10-12 will be enough to hit the critical areas on most people under most conditions.

 

[arthurcw]

I carry a P-3at quite frequently in the Houston heat. I don't feel like I'm doing something foolish. It's not the best caliber in the land but within its designed distance I can fire it rapidly and accurately.

If you go for it, try the Winchester Silver Tips. If they don't feed in it, then you can go to one of the odder rounds like the EFMJ or the Pow'r-balls.

Now for all you baggin on the guy for a "weak caliber" or a "crappy gun", you all know dang well it will not be his last. He'll get this itch to try something bigger and badder. We all do.

Just remember that if it doesn’t feed, is not reliable, or you can’t become proficient with it then dump it; or you’ll just run the risk of Magic Talisman Syndrome and “think” you are safe when you really aren’t.