.380 or .38

[hlq]

I am in the market for a new carry revolver/pistol an am looking at either a .380 pistol (haven't decided on model or make) or a SP101 in .38 that I can buy locally. My two main considerations are dependability and concealment.

Let's disregarding caliber for the moment, and focus on dependability and concealment. Although no gun is guarantied 100% when you pull the trigger on the 101 it will go bang and it is pretty concealable. Some of the .380's that I've been looking into such as the Bersa or Ruger (other suggestions are certainly welcome) seem to be smaller and easier to conceal but are they as reliable?

Personal if I was just looking for dependability I would take the SP with the added advantage of it being a .38. If I was just looking for a very concealable pistol the .380 would seem to be the obvious choice.

So if you had to make the choice between the two calibers balancing to two criteria stated equally which would you choose? If you'd go with the .380 which make and model would you pick and why? My budget is set at $500 tops.

thanks,
hlq

 

[rcmodel]

They can be.
My Kel-Tec P3AT has been 100% since after the initial break-in period.

On the otherhand, an SP-101 weighs almost as much as three P3AT's, and is twice as thick or more.

How much weight & size are you willing to go with?

Personally, my .380 can go anywhere I go, all the time.

I don't dress to hide even a J-Frame S&W most of the summer.

rc

 

[GRIZ22]

There is no real difference in concealability between a 380 and a SP sized revolver. The 380 might be a bit more comfortable in an IWB as it is flatter. The 38 is more effective.

This is my opinion after carrying both for close to 35 years. Other opinions may vary.

 

[rcmodel]

I would agree if you are talking about a PPK or something.

However, the more recent developments like the P3AT and Ruger copy of it are less then half the size & weight of any .380 in the world 10 years ago.

For instance, I can carry my P3AT in my shirt pocket all day in complete comfort.

rc

 

[OregonJohnny]

Putting caliber effectiveness aside for now, let's simply talk about what's currently available for each caliber. You will find far more "pocketable" semi-auto .380 pistol models than you will "pocketable" .38 special revolver models. Really the only 2 pocket revolvers currently made that I can think of are the S&W J-frame and the upcoming Ruger LCR. Both are ultra-light 5-shot guns. Few people consider the Ruger SP-101 a pocket gun, especially if you're not a big person who wears big baggy pants. In semi-auto pistols, because of the much flatter gun design, and the much smaller dimensions of a .380 case than a .38 special case, you have many more options. The Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P-3AT, Seecamp, NAA Guardian, Kahr .380, the upcoming Sig P238, etc. If pocket carry is not your main goal, your options really open up. For waist band carry, the Ruger SP-101 is a great choice, as are dozens of sub-compact semi-autos in all sorts of calibers. If you go with the SP-101, I'd highly recommend getting it in .357 Magnum. You still have the ability to shoot .38 Special from it, with the added option of shooting more powerful .357 Magnum. Look around, hold as many different models as possible in your hand, research, and shoot a few different options if possible. Good luck!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OK well I have a Beretta in .22 LR that is equally as concealable, though just an ounce or two heavier, and how about one of those single-action .22 magnum revolvers? Not part of the equation are they, as what the round will actually do IS partly the consideration isn't it?

(imho) After 20 years of continuous experience, the .380 is a moderate round to use when you want to discourage a badguy from chasing you down as you extend the distance and escape, and it's better than a .22 LR or a .32 ACP. The .38 in an SP101 will take +P rounds, and those are for ending gunfights in your favor. Revolvers do not have as many possible stoppages as a semi-automatic.

LD

 

[BADUNAME37]

Myself, I went with a S&W 38 +P in 642 J-Frame.

I love that gun! Coupled with a Robert Mika pocket holster, you can't go wrong.

I used to own an SP101, however I feel my J-Frame Airweight is much lighter and somewhat smaller (going by memory as I haven't had the SP101 for at least 10 years now).

 

[krs]

(imho) After 20 years of continuous experience, the .380 is a moderate round to use when you want to discourage a badguy from chasing you down as you extend the distance and escape, and it's better than a .22 LR or a .32 ACP. The .38 in an SP101 will take +P rounds, and those are for ending gunfights in your favor. Revolvers do not have as many possible stoppages as a semi-automatic.

I'd go along with that.

There are times or characteristics of dress that can make even a lightweight small revolver difficult to carry and/or conceal, but it's hard to imagine that a person who has available a single pocket of most any size could not carry a modern small .380 with utter ease. There simply are no easier to carry pistols than the Keltec or Ruger models listed above.

My wallet is fatter and weighs far more than my Keltec 3PaT.

 

[SaxonPig]

I have a FEG 380 with an alloy frame (looks like a Walther PP but lighter in weight). I also have a S&W M40 and I have compared them.

They are almost exactly the same length and height. The Smith is a tad thicker. Empty, the FEG is a bit lighter. Loaded, the FEG is a bit heavier because it carries two more rounds of ammo.

The 40 is hammerless and generally smoother, with less to snag during the draw.

The auto carries 7 rounds to the revolver's 5 and is faster to reload. Advantage to the 380.

If limited to factory ammo the 38 is slightly more powerful than the 380. With hand loads the 38 can be made significantly more powerful.

Either gun will do the job and I have carried both extensively. On paper the 380 seems the better all around choice but I confess to packing the Smith more often. Personal preference, I guess.

 

[rhoggman]

I have both a S&W J frame 60-15, and Ruger LCP. Although I can fit the J-frame revolver in my pocket, it fill up my pocket, and the butt of the revolver sticks out of my pocket. The Sp101 I believe is going to be a little larger.

The LCP is in a completely different class when it comes to conceal-ability. This pistol is less than one inch thick, and it only weighs about 9 ounces.

Look I know that many people will try to knock .380 as a caliber, and that is fine, but I got news for you. IT CAN KILL YOU... .380 FMJ would most likely pass right through the human body. Furthermore, .380 auto is right up there with regular old 38 SPC. 38 SPC +P not so much.

People have had issues with the LCP, but the LCP was recalled on a hypothetical safety issue that is known to exist on the KEL-TEC P3AT. My LCP has been 100% reliable with FMJ & hollow points. I have never had a hiccup with this weapon.

At 7-10 yards it is very accurate as well. I added a Hogue slip on grip that really helped control the grip of the pistol over all. Magazine figer extensions are also helpful.

If I were you I would get an LCP vice the SP101 for the purpose of concealment.

 

[rhoggman]

Myself, I went with a S&W 38 +P in 642 J-Frame.

If I had to have a CCW in 38 SPC +P it would be the above for $400 it is hard to beat. Otherwise I would just get the 340 Scandium in .357.

 

[EHL]

I'd got with the .380 myself. I carry a p3at and I forget she's there. I also pocket carry a ppks and that one is easy to forget that it's there too. It's a little heavier, no doubts, but the slim profile really helps to avoid bulge in the pocket like a .38 snub would. Just my opinion though.

 

[CoRoMo]

The Airweight or the Kel Tec/Ruger would be good choices.
I'd recommend either, but lean towards semi-autos myself.

 

[Davionmaximus]

Whatever fits you the best. The .380 in a small frame will be thinner and probably more comfortable to conceal. The .38 will pack a better punch.
I personally can't hit the broad side of a barn w/ a small revolver...

 

[SwampWolf]

As much as I like the SP101, I think it's too heavy for pocket carry. Because I prefer the .38 Special to the .380 for self-defense purposes, I'd recommend an alloy, J-frame sized snubby for pocket carry. My favorite carry piece for said purpose is my Colt Cobra-it's hard not to like 20% more ammo on board a reliable revolver with the same weight as a Smith Airweight.

 

[GRIZ22]

However, the more recent developments like the P3AT and Ruger copy of it are less then half the size & weight of any .380 in the world 10 years ago.


This I can't challenge rc. i don't own one but have fired the Kel-Tec. I could shoot a max score with one on my agency's qual course which included shooting from 25 yards. I could shoot much more accurately with a PPK or J frame. I could do I am also aware many are looking for the smallest gun possible. The problem is many people, LEO and other good citizens alike, just can't shoot that good.

The Kel Tec is small which makes it difficult to shoot. You, me, and many others can handle it. Frankly I'd have to say many can't. If someone wants to prescribe to the "most situations are at very close range and I don't see any reason to be able to hit farther than 5 (or 7 or 10 yards)" they are probably fooling only themselves.

Too many people are overwhelmed with size. I want the smallest available and the hell with everything else.

In any case if it works for you that's fine.

 

[Glockman17366]

Really the only 2 pocket revolvers currently made that I can think of are the S&W J-frame and the upcoming Ruger LCR. Both are ultra-light 5-shot guns.

The Taurus 85 and 851 series guns are exceptional pocket revolvers as well. These are both .38 Spl revolvers rated for +P.
As far as this thread, the .380 vs .38...well, it really depends on which type of gun fits an individual best.
As far as stopping power, both will do the job.
My choice was revolvers since I never found a small semi-auto I liked. However, I have now...a Ruger LCP.

Main thing, you got to have a gun you're going to carry.

Oops! I forgot about that little .32ACP Beretta Tomcat I bought my wife. I've carried this one on occasions and felt protected. I really like that tip up barrel for loading and unloading. Too many sharp edges. I'll be trading this gun toward the LCP.

 

[sevin8nin]

I'd go with the S&W j-frame, hammerless, for all your criteria.

It's light, small, reliable, and you can fire it from inside a pocket.
You can't really run +p .380s, but you can run +p .38s and they're actually a very effective round.

A .380 is going to be inherently less reliable because it's recoil operated, although most .380s are blowback operated which makes them a little more reliable, but ultimately nothing beats a revolver.

also, with the revolver there's nothing to think about, just pull the trigger.

I haven't really found a .380 that fits most of my criteria, which is why I don't own one. I used to have a beretta cheetah, but didn't see why it needed to be .380 instead of 9mm. So I got rid of it and picked up a springfield EMP, and that satisfies my 'small gun' needs.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If limited to factory ammo the 38 is slightly more powerful than the 380.

Look I know that many people will try to knock .380 as a caliber, and that is fine, but I got news for you. IT CAN KILL YOU... .380 FMJ would most likely pass right through the human body. Furthermore, .380 auto is right up there with regular old 38 SPC. 38 SPC +P not so much

The .22LR and the .25 acp CAN KILL YOU too. Lethality from a good shot isn't the question, and .380 FMJ "might" pass through, not "likely". As far as being "close" to each other...,

.38 Special 158 g LRN @ 770 ft/s = 208 ft-lbs (old original load)
.380 95 g FMJ @ 980 ft/s = 203 ft-lbs

So it's true if shooting vintage Walthers vs. Smith & Wesson hand-ejector, but if you use the .38 factory loaded a bit hotter you get:


158 g LRN @ 940 ft/s = 310 ft-lbs

and then you look at the +P load (and why wouldn't you use this if all other things are equal) you get:

158 g JHP @ 1000 ft/s = 351 ft-lbs

while the .380 stays at 205 - 215 ft-lbs of energy with current loads.

I'm not knocking the .380. It does what it was designed to do, to beef up the .32 acp as a defense handgun cartridge, Ian Flemming and 007 not withstanding. It's better than the .32, but NOT as good as some factory .38 special loads, and very much inferior to +P loads.



LD

 

[Redhawk1]

I prefer and carry a Kel-Tec P3AT. I can carry it 100% of the time, where as a 38 Special revolver is just not as easy to conceal. With the extended mag, I have 8 shots and a back up mag and can reload faster than the 38 revolver.

My other carry is a S&W model 411 in 40 S&W.

 

[HelpUsRonPaul]

i was in this exact same situation a while ago and i ended up buying a 12oz charter arms aluminum off duty .38 snub. i love it but was leaving it at home more often than i liked. it is easy to conceal in the waist but not in the pants pocket.

i later bought a kel-tec p3at for the pocket and i have this gun on me every day no matter what. it is too easy to hide in a pocket.

i almost never carry the .38 anymore or my glock 26 because it's so easy to slip the kel-tec in my pocket.

i'm not saying that a kel-tec is better to carry, just that it's better than leaving a bigger better gun at home. that's just me, some people have no problem wearing a gun in their belt all the time, i do.

what it boils down to is; do you want it in your pocket or on your waist?

 

[357sigRog]

I have both a .38 snub and a .380 auto. I am more comfortable carrying my Bersa Thunder .380 with Rem. 102gr Golden Sabres of the 2, in my opinion.

 

[David E]

Given those choices, I'd go with a Kahr P-9 ! More shots, easier to shoot and hit with, easy to carry, flat reloads....

If you are going to carry/hide a chunky SP-101, then you can carry something that weighs the same (or less, like the P-9) that'll do the same job better.

If the Bersa .380 is chosen, then again, the P-9 offers lighter weight and more power.

A pocket .380 like a Keltec 3AT or Ruger LCP is a fine backup gun, but a poor primary.

.

 

[mkonops]

Why not both? Get which ever fits your budget now and the other when you can. You won't regret it.

 

[zombienerd]

Well, for "Pocket guns" there is this great little picture here, I can't remember what site I got it off of, so if someone does, please link to it, it may have been updated since I downloaded the picture.