38sp 158gr LSWC Keyholing All the time..

[styles]

The forward driving band isn't the issue. It's the entire bullet bearing surface that's inside the case getting resized. The resizing occurs at the mouth of the die.


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it would only do that to a swollen bullet like .453 or> in a 45 acp case, right? It doesn't go below that until you hit the crimped. The full length is just saami chamber diameter.

 

[styles]

The Lee FC sizing ring is a max SAAMI diameter sizer that only sizes portions of the case that are greater than the maximum SAAMI case diameter. Its purpose is to remove any bulges that may prevent chambering. There is no sizing the bullet unless that portion of the cases OD is out of spec which it shouldn't be in the first place. All bullets are squeezed down a bit during the seating operation, this is what provides the case neck tension. This is normal and anyone who has pulled bullets will see this in both lead and jacketed bullets whether ran through a normal seating crimping die or a Lee FC die.

Agreed.

 

[styles]

Don't use the factory crimp die with cast or swaged lead bullets.
It has a carbide sizer ring in the base of the die. This sizes the case down to ensure positive feeding and chambering of the loaded rounds but it wrecks havoc on the soft non elastic bullet.

Stop using the factory crimp die and use standard seating/crimping die. The only PISTOL cartridge "factory crimp die" I use is the 9mmPara. It has a tapered case and only the base of the case touches the sizer ring.

What size do you think the ring is in say 45 acp?
<spoiler>
.4760
<\spoiler>
How does that resize a bullet?

In 45 long it is the .480 of the case rim of the acp. The rim of the long is .512

These are wives tales of reloading.

 

[ljnowell]

The Lee FC sizing ring is a max SAAMI diameter sizer that only sizes portions of the case that are greater than the maximum SAAMI case diameter. Its purpose is to remove any bulges that may prevent chambering. There is no sizing the bullet unless that portion of the cases OD is out of spec which it shouldn't be in the first place. All bullets are squeezed down a bit during the seating operation, this is what provides the case neck tension. This is normal and anyone who has pulled bullets will see this in both lead and jacketed bullets whether ran through a normal seating crimping die or a Lee FC die.

it would only do that to a swollen bullet like .453 or> in a 45 acp case, right? It doesn't go below that until you hit the crimped. The full length is just saami chamber diameter.

In theory yes. Unfortunately Lee is known to put out dies with undersize rings. You also have the fact that not all brass is the same thickness and lead bullets are bigger than jacketed.

There is no way to over adjust a die to make the carbide sizer size down bullets. Some FCDs will do it with some bullets and brass and that's fact. That's why I threw mine away. If I used Winchester brass or starline, which between those two it's 60% of my brass, my cast lead bulkets would be sized down to .450".

They do it. It's fact. I argued in favor of them for a long time, until I got one that did this.


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[styles]

In theory yes. Unfortunately Lee is known to put out dies with undersize rings. You also have the fact that not all brass is the same thickness and lead bullets are bigger than jacketed.

There is no way to over adjust a die to make the carbide sizer size down bullets. Some FCDs will do it with some bullets and brass and that's fact. That's why I threw mine away. If I used Winchester brass or starline, which between those two it's 60% of my brass, my cast lead bulkets would be sized down to .450".

They do it. It's fact. I argued in favor of them for a long time, until I got one that did this.


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Thanks.
Can you determine that without pulling? How can I tell with calipers, or can I? I measured my groove and it was .012 in the rimrock .452s.

I know people say 45 ACP should be .471-.473 and the LEE FCD resizes to .470, but I have measured a lot of Federal AE and they are never more than .4695-.4700 at the lip and .470-.471 at the base in front of the rim. I have never had an issue with Federal.

45LC Win brass w/ .452 is .4735-.4740.

 

[hovercat]

Another item to try is the cases, Pick out a few with a double cannelure, these are made for wadcutter bullets.

 

[ljnowell]

Thanks.
Can you determine that without pulling? How can I tell with calipers, or can I? I measured my groove and it was .012 in the rimrock .452s.

I know people say 45 ACP should be .471-.473 and the LEE FCD resizes to .470, but I have measured a lot of Federal AE and they are never more than .4695-.4700 at the lip and .470-.471 at the base in front of the rim. I have never had an issue with Federal.

45LC Win brass w/ .452 is .4735-.4740.

The best thing you can do is pull the bullet from a loaded cartridge and measure it. You will know for sure if that's your problem or not.


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[RecoilRob]

The Lee FCD can be adjusted to put a minimal crimp on if desired, so if it's over-crimping that sounds like something that should be easy to correct. Granted, if you crank it down to a maximum crimp it'll squeeze the dickens out of them, but back 'em off and just lightly do it if it's distorting the bullet. You can tell by feel when the case mouth starts to get into the bullet so the crimping operation should only take a wee bit of pressure if it's being done right.

 

[ljnowell]

The Lee FCD can be adjusted to put a minimal crimp on if desired, so if it's over-crimping that sounds like something that should be easy to correct. Granted, if you crank it down to a maximum crimp it'll squeeze the dickens out of them, but back 'em off and just lightly do it if it's distorting the bullet. You can tell by feel when the case mouth starts to get into the bullet so the crimping operation should only take a wee bit of pressure if it's being done right.

ITS NOT THE CRIMP THAT SIZES DOWN THE BULLETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the carbide sizing ring. Maybe that time it was clear enough.


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[styles]

I measured my 45lc ring at .4735 so I guess brass thicker than .010 and a .452 bullet would indeed squeeze a little. I'm going to keep using the FCD for roll crimping, but I think I will try taper crimping without it.

Thanks.

 

[noylj]

It is almost always a bullet diameter problem.
Are you getting leading also and have you cleaned the leading out of the barrel?
If you are using the Lee FCD, please pull a seated and crimped bullet and check the after-seating diameter of the bullet. I'll bet the bullets are either undersized for your gun or they are under-sized after being swaged down by the FCD. I have had this happen myself and currently only use the FCDs for Bulge Busting.
I recommend the Redding Profile Crimp Die of ALL roll crimp applications. The standard Lee Taper Crimp Die is perfect for all taper crimp applications.
Bullets need to be at least 0.001" over actual groove diameter of gun and should be at least a snug slip-fit in the cylinder's throats.

 

[Catpop]

Plus one on backer board
I've had it happen many times to me.

 

[41 Mag]

I hope the backer or thicker paper makes the difference, but if your using the FCD I would wager that is at least a part of it.

I have used the FCD myself and found it caused major issues with leading in my 45 ACP. I noted this not long after I started casting and was just getting into the auto portion. My bullets size out at .4525 which shoot great with no leading what so ever. Running them through the FCD with a .470" diameter ring in the bottom reduced them to .451 which, while it works great with a jacketed bullet isn't worth shooting with lead. This reduced the outside of my ammo to .471" whereas the standard die is running .473", and yes that does make all the difference in the world.

There are just as many folks who praise the goodness of the FCD as there are who find them a piece of wasted money, your milage may vary. I prefer a light taper crimp on my auto's and a nice roll crimp on my revolvers, neither of which is an issue with the FCD. What I also prefer is that when I seat a bullet at one diameter that it remain there and not be sized smaller when I crimp the case around it. This is what the FCD does with the carbide ring in the bottom.

Now if you have one of the custom made FCD's put out by Ranch Dog a few years back, you will find they have no carbide ring in them. They were shortened versions of the rifle die made for revolver loading. These are decent dies if you have a need for them, but other than them I personally will not have another one. Just far easier to adjust the standard die for the purpose it was intended.