.38spl wadcutters

[greybeard57]

I have some Magtech 148g lead hollow base wadcutters that I want to load for my wifes S&W 627-2 Airweight.

Two questions- one; are they set to full depth with a roll right at or slightly over the top edge of the shoulder?
two; I have w231 and Titegroup to use. The airweight is a snubby, are the recipes OK for that or should the loads be reduced somewhat for the shorter barrel?

I've loaded over 1000 rounds of jacketed 9mm & .38's but never lead and never wadcutters. (Actual wadcutters, not swc's) So basically I'm still a noob at reloading.

 

[cfullgraf]

I generally seat my wadcutters with between 1/16" to 1/8" of the bullet exposed.

Some lead wadcutter bullets have a driving band that is a good place to seat the bullet to, some cast wadcutters have a crimp band. Plated wadcutters don't have any place the crimp to so I just use a taper crimp.

Note, wadcutters need only a crimp to remove the mouth belling. Recoil is fairly mild and bullet set back due to recoil is virtually non-existent.

No need to reduce loads, load standard loads for hollow base wadcutters. Recoil is mild any way. Be careful going too low with wadcutters as a bullet lodged in the barrel can be a real possibility although the chance is lessened with a 2" barrel.

Note, read up a little on hollow base wadcutters. They have some load limitations and idiosyncrasies due to the long hollow base skirt. Not a problem if you follow the load data for hollow base wadcutters.

I am not familiar with Titegroup, but W231 would be a good powder to use.

Hope this helps.

 

[ljnowell]

I found out long ago that DEWC or HBWC perform well with no crimp at all. Just straighten the case mouth like a 45acp. Accuracy greatly improved for me when I quit crimping.

As far as your powder choice I never liked titegroup and found 231 to be dirty at lower load levels like wadcutter loads. I use AA#2 exclusively for these loads.

 

[Miata Mike]

W231 is the same as HP-38, which rumor has it was named after 38 special. I load my 148 grain double ended wadcutters in bulk with W231 and they are mild + very accurate.

Red dot makes for a nice soft 38 special load, but doesn't meter as well as I wanted for my "bulk" loads.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Both powders work for wadcutters. Do some testing and see what works best for your gun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

HBWC bullets should be seated flush with the case lip. DEWC bullets should be seated to the crimp groove. I place a very light crimp on both. As for loading a lighter charge for a short barrel revolver, most reloaders would want to use more powder because of the loss in velocity in a shorter barrel. No, don't lighten the charge weights. A good accurate .38 Special load is good in all barrel lengths.

I load:
148gr HBWC w/3.2gr W231
148gr DEWC w/3.4gr W231
Both loads produce target velocities and are very accurate in my revolvers. Hodgdon's load data for a 148gr HBWC goes up to 4.0gr W231/HP-38 if you want/need more punch.

 

[greybeard57]

Thanks everyone! All good advice that I used this afternoon. I made up 15 test mules with 3.1g of Titegroup and set the lead down to the shoulder and put a light roll crimp on them. They looked good! Then went out and shot em. They hit where my old eyes was expecting them to; what more can a guy ask for? The recoil was mild, but I still saw a fairly healthy fireball because I shot late this afternoon in the shade of my grove where my pistol range is. I guess for a two inch barrel that's to be expected from any powder. I still had more lead fouling than I'd like though.

Maybe it needs more break-in time. IDK. The pistol has got maybe 140 rounds through it so far, mixed between JHP and store bought LRN R&P.

ETA- I weighed every one of these, and was very particular about the seating depth and crimp. Since the gun is a snubby anyway, accuracy is not my main concern. At the distance it could be used at, there won't be much chance of missing. I was hitting on or really near to a bottle cap at 30 feet. My wife is a much better shot than I am anyway and she'll be carrying it while she rides here horse in the county parks.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If those Wadcutter rounds are going to be carried for SD ignore my load data above, that was for target Wadcutters. For carry I would suggest at least 4.0gr W231/HP-38 under a 148gr WC bullet. You can actually go up to 4.2gr W231 but I've found the 4.0gr load to be very accurate.

 

[Walkalong]

You cannot drive lead hollow base wadcutters fast enough to use for self defense. Get some double end (solid) wad cutters for that. You risk blowing the front out on a lead HBWC and leaving the skirt in the barrel.

If they leaded, there is a reason, and with some more info we can figure out why, and fix it. The roll crimp could be causing problems, and is unnecessary.

 

[ljnowell]

If they leaded, there is a reason, and with some more info we can figure out why, and fix it. The roll crimp could be causing problems, and is unnecessary.

Not only is it unnecessary, its detrimental to accuracy also.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You cannot drive lead hollow base wadcutters fast enough to use for self defense. Get some double end (solid) wad cutters for that. You risk blowing the front out on a lead HBWC and leaving the skirt in the barrel.

If they leaded, there is a reason, and with some more info we can figure out why, and fix it. The roll crimp could be causing problems, and is unnecessary.

This is true that's why I suggested 4.0gr W231. That is the Max charge Hodgdon recommends for a HBWC. I completely agree a DEWC would be a much better choice.

 

[ETXhiker]

You cannot drive lead hollow base wadcutters fast enough to use for self defense.

Nope, but you can drive them slow enough for self defense

I once loaded some HBWC's backwards with about 2.8 to 3 grains of Bullseye. Their performance on water jugs was impressive. But on paper at about 10 yards, I noticed they were key-holing. That giant hollow point looked kind of cool, though.

 

[Walkalong]

This is true that's why I suggested 4.0gr W231.

Just backing you up.

Loading HBWCs backward is a bad idea on game or people. Water jugs are one thing, meat is another.

DEWC? Now that will cut a nice deep .38 caliber tunnel. I have a 30 Cal ammo can full of lead DEWCs.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

The giant hollow point is like a drag chute on a dragster.

And when the bullet starts out at 650 FPS out of a 2" revolver?

The drag chute will limit penetration to less then acceptable depth to do any major organ damage.

It was worthless for SD in 1970, and it's still worthless for SD.

rc

 

[LeonCarr]

Brassfetcher tested the Federal Gold Medal 148 Grain HBWC which penetrated 16.0 inches in gelatin. Usually from a snub nose revolver these do around 600 fps. This debunks the notion that HBWCs can't be driven fast enough for self defense or won't penetrate deep enough. Even at target velocities it will penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals without having to worry about the bullet skirt flying off or anything like that.

I recommend factory loaded HBWCs for use in snub nose revolvers due to the penetration capabilities and the mild recoil. Backward HBWCs have never worked for me in testing, with keyholed bullets and groups 6 times as large at 7 yards as the correctly loaded HBWC.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[ljnowell]

Brassfetcher tested the Federal Gold Medal 148 Grain HBWC which penetrated 16.0 inches in gelatin. Usually from a snub nose revolver these do around 600 fps. This debunks the notion that HBWCs can't be driven fast enough for self defense or won't penetrate deep enough. Even at target velocities it will penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals without having to worry about the bullet skirt flying off or anything like that.

I recommend factory loaded HBWCs for use in snub nose revolvers due to the penetration capabilities and the mild recoil. Backward HBWCs have never worked for me in testing, with keyholed bullets and groups 6 times as large at 7 yards as the correctly loaded HBWC.

No one here is disputing that they penetrate well, when loaded correctly. Its when people try to load them backwards like a giant hollow point that they dont penetrate well. At least I didnt read anyone as saying when loaded properly they didnt penetrate. Its well known that they penetrate very well.

 

[greybeard57]

I see the points ya'll are making but I'm one of those types that would rather use the wadcutters for wounding.

Actually I have some Corbon HP's as real self defense rounds. But I believe the wadcutters would be a good backup to carry with her. The least that could happen is the bad guy would feel as though he was hit by a house. Either way it might cause second thoughts if push comes to shove.

When I get around to building some more maybe I'll forgo the roll and do a taper crimp instead then to see how those work out?