3D Printed Liberator Pistol: Video, more angles, loading detail

[barnbwt]

Yeah, I'm not sure the Feds have ever tried to censor an entire class of technology before . Are they gonna cry "ITAR" every time someone puts up a printable AR grip? Or only if they do so with cameras rolling


"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

When he comes out with a real pistol like a Glock then that would be enormous

Yes, when he comes out with a game-changing product that completely alters the landscape of the industry for decades to come, all over the world, then yes, that would be "enormous." I guess we have to settle for the fact that this technology merely threatens to accomplish just that.

Does anyone think we don't already have non-metallic firearms in service?

TCB

 

[Deus Machina]

Yeah, the point here isn't really about the gun. Or just about the gun, I should say.
1) You can't really punish someone for making information available. Not justifiably. I mean, I can get on Google and learn how to make crystal meth as fast as I can read, but I don't hear about the DEA kicking down doors over that. It's what someone that takes the information does with it.
2) You can't ban information. Not without the people wising--and rising--up. This is the American sensibility. Banning information is declaring war on the rights of citizens and turning them into subjects.
3) You can't outright ban 3D printers. A: There are plenty of open-source plans out there, and see 1 and 2 above. B: Banning a manufacturing method isn't going to fly with anyone interested. Banning something because I could make a short-lived single-shot gun? I could do the same with my mill and lathe. Or a Dremel and a hammer.
Banning any method of manufacturing anything puts that method under direct government control, and how well has that gone over in America?

No, the point of this isn't the gun. The point of this is to show limits. Make people take notice, and the government to either settle on where their limits lie or play their hand and make the people draw a line in the sand, and either will work only in American citizens' favor.

 

[wacki]

I'd wager that within the next 10-15 years, you'll find a 3D printer in almost every household, and the ones that you'll be buying for your home in 15 years will make today's uberexpensive ones look like toys.

They already have ones that do just that. I saw a printer that was printing in D2 tool steel. Anyone that knows anything about knives knows that's some pretty tough stuff. The second those guys start to get cheap is the second gun companies will have to radically rethink their business... and the ATF will be flooded with form 1's.

 

[Deus Machina]

I saw a printer that was printing in D2 tool steel.

Can I just say that I think you must be mistaken on that? A CNC grinder or mill, yes. a 3D printer, doubtful.

Tool steels are usually forced, then ground. 3D printers work by either melting and applying a material or, more rarely now, applying a dry material and then catalyzing it.

I seriously doubt there's any printer that could turn d2 steel molten, keep it metallurgy consistent, and cost any less than just buying three tons of the stuff and a CNC grinder.

3D printers are getting pretty good, but reliable knife blades are still beyond them.

 

[barnbwt]

There's "printers" out there that work by laser-sintering metal. I've only heard of it used in Titantium, but I'm not surprised other metals are done as well. They've repaired turbine blades this way for years.

However, simple thermodynamics dictates that such a process will require a ton of energy (and Argon) and will therefore always be crazily expensive, until we invent stove-top fusion, or something. Just like how the big 5-axis CNCs will always be expensive, but they use kilowatts of energy and massive amounts of metal/carbide; expensive.

I'd like to see a desktop "silk spinner" which prints in carbon strand and epoxy like the huge contraption used to layup 787 fuselages now. 3D print a form or mandrel, and lay fiber over in a very precise, controlled pattern to reinforce it as needed. If that little "chamber" piece in the Liberator were a .25" thick section of dense carbon-fiber, it could probably hold back .357 (though you'd have a hard time getting the expanded case back out )

The best use for 3D printing in manufacture has always been the rapid development of prototypes (as opposed to production) and tooling to make the real items. While 3D printing isn't as strong as cast metal, it's certainly strong enough to create moulds for lost-wax casting. It's strong enough to make dies for stamping soft, thin metal in a press (SLA plastics could probably handle even tougher jobs). It's strong enough to make moulds for casting polyurethane or other epoxies. It's dimensionally stable enough to work as a form for making fiber-reinforced shapes.

TCB

 

[Cosmoline]

I was a skeptic, but this "liberator" has already put far more fear into the hearts of tyrants than the originals ever did. They're scrambling to try to shut down the information. That alone should be all the evidence we need of the importance of the design. As a firearm it is something of a joke, and inherently unsafe to use. But as an idea it's bottled lightning.

Remember that firearms were at the cutting edge of the previous industrial revolutions. It was the Hall Rifle that paved the way towards interchangeable parts. Now it may be another failed gun design that ends up revolutionizing industry again. We shall see. It's sure scaring the bejesus out of our lords and masters.

 

[ldsgeek]

I recall reading recently about a man who had had a large portion of his skull replaced with a printed part derived from the intact opposite portion. Was said to be about as tough as a helmet that would have been needed to protect the soft spot, but obviously less obtrusive.

I hadn't heard about the ear; I still think that ear they grew on the mouse was the coolest/freakiest medical experiment ever, though


The printers aren't (and never will be, by physical limitations) as consistent unit-to-unit as the internals of a video game system. The stepper motors, limit switches, fusers, and other bits have too many degrees of freedom for a one size fits all solution. Just like how no one would ever do something foolish like blindly run a downloaded AR-lower toolpath on their CNC machine. What works for one, may not work for some, so you have to verify. I will say that printing is easier than CNC simply because you're less likely to break something while tuning it, and because it's so much cheaper to mess around with .

I can't believe no one with a printer has chimed in on any of these threads so far. I guess they aren't as common as the media would like us to believe


Not that I have (in case any FBI are listening) but a great many of those cracks are either buggy, junk, viruses, or perfect. On a computer I can always re-image, that's not a huge risk. On something containing high pressure inches from my face, well.... Talk about a case study in how laws have been ineffective at stopping the distribution of easily copied material, though. The game developers eventually figure out ways to make it more difficult to crack the game; I'm not sure how a firearms designer could do something similar to prevent duplication of a physical object, especially since 3D laser scanners are coming out . I guess they'll start incorporating pieces that can only be made by fancy trade-secret processes like MIM or drop-forging

TCB

To answer two of your posts at the same time.

First you mentioned that SLA is the strongest technology, stronger than FDM. You have that backwards, the resins used in SLA machines is far weaker than even the weakest ABS used in FDM, not dimensionally stable when exposed to UV and break down when exposed to UV, making that technology unsuitable for this task. You may have meant SLS (selective laser sintering) which can work in stronger materials including some metals. Those machines are an order of magnitude more expensive and require industrial power rather than 110VAC.

As a user of FDM and Polyjet (Stratasys and Objet, I'm a certified tech for both) I have built the AR lower on both. The first model the DefCad tried that failed was built on a Polyjet machine of some type, it failed in 6 rounds. The One that has (so far) fired over 600 rounds was built on an FDM machine, something from the 768 class, either an sst768 or an Elite. These designs are, for the most part, proof of concept and will be improved rapidly. The choice of .380 was pure genius as in many countries citizens are prohibited from owning military and police caliber firearms, the .380 is allowed in most of these. In ComBlock countries and China, this design will likely be modified to use 9x18, some of which will probably be "found" after an officer gets a bribe to lose it.

The company I work for services around 200 of the commercial grade FDM systems in New England. To give some idea of how many have been built, the serial numbers, starting from 1, have reached over 15000 on just one line of printers from one manufacturer. Factor in the reprap based machines and other smaller makers (which are far more affordable, although not as accurate) and we will soon see 100,000 in the field. For access to them, you can send a file and check or credit card to any of dozens of service bureaus to have parts made, or in some cities pay for access to a club/maker space that has one and build what you want. This technology is out there and is maturing rapidly, more rapidly than the PC in fact. As has been pointed out, the first, small LCD monitors were upwards of $1000 only 10-12 years ago, now you can buy a 27" for less than $200. How long do you think it will be before we can buy a 3d printer at Best Buy for under $500?

 

[JRH6856]

Back around 1958 , This Week Magazine (came in the Sunday paper) had a story about zip guns with pictures including a cutaway of one made from a Ronson lighter. Fired a .22 short. Being a normal 10yr old, I immediately made one. It was a lot cheaper than using an $8000 printer.

 

[Bruno2]

I heard a figure of at least 100,000 copies of the program downloaded from their site alone. There must be millions of them out in circulation now.

What does gov do now?

 

[jerkface11]

What does gov do now

Probably audit us.