Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

3D Printed Liberator Pistol: Video, more angles, loading detail

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Dean Weingarten, May 6, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,064
    Yeah, I'm not sure the Feds have ever tried to censor an entire class of technology before :uhoh:. Are they gonna cry "ITAR" every time someone puts up a printable AR grip? Or only if they do so with cameras rolling ;)


    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

    Yes, when he comes out with a game-changing product that completely alters the landscape of the industry for decades to come, all over the world, then yes, that would be "enormous." I guess we have to settle for the fact that this technology merely threatens to accomplish just that.

    Does anyone think we don't already have non-metallic firearms in service?

    TCB
     
  2. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,220
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida
    Yeah, the point here isn't really about the gun. Or just about the gun, I should say.
    1) You can't really punish someone for making information available. Not justifiably. I mean, I can get on Google and learn how to make crystal meth as fast as I can read, but I don't hear about the DEA kicking down doors over that. It's what someone that takes the information does with it.
    2) You can't ban information. Not without the people wising--and rising--up. This is the American sensibility. Banning information is declaring war on the rights of citizens and turning them into subjects.
    3) You can't outright ban 3D printers. A: There are plenty of open-source plans out there, and see 1 and 2 above. B: Banning a manufacturing method isn't going to fly with anyone interested. Banning something because I could make a short-lived single-shot gun? I could do the same with my mill and lathe. Or a Dremel and a hammer.
    Banning any method of manufacturing anything puts that method under direct government control, and how well has that gone over in America?

    No, the point of this isn't the gun. The point of this is to show limits. Make people take notice, and the government to either settle on where their limits lie or play their hand and make the people draw a line in the sand, and either will work only in American citizens' favor.
     
  3. wacki

    wacki Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,693
    Location:
    Reminiscing the Rockies
    They already have ones that do just that. I saw a printer that was printing in D2 tool steel. Anyone that knows anything about knives knows that's some pretty tough stuff. The second those guys start to get cheap is the second gun companies will have to radically rethink their business... and the ATF will be flooded with form 1's.
     
  4. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,220
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida
    Can I just say that I think you must be mistaken on that? A CNC grinder or mill, yes. a 3D printer, doubtful.

    Tool steels are usually forced, then ground. 3D printers work by either melting and applying a material or, more rarely now, applying a dry material and then catalyzing it.

    I seriously doubt there's any printer that could turn d2 steel molten, keep it metallurgy consistent, and cost any less than just buying three tons of the stuff and a CNC grinder.

    3D printers are getting pretty good, but reliable knife blades are still beyond them.
     
  5. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    7,064
    There's "printers" out there that work by laser-sintering metal. I've only heard of it used in Titantium, but I'm not surprised other metals are done as well. They've repaired turbine blades this way for years.

    However, simple thermodynamics dictates that such a process will require a ton of energy (and Argon) and will therefore always be crazily expensive, until we invent stove-top fusion, or something. Just like how the big 5-axis CNCs will always be expensive, but they use kilowatts of energy and massive amounts of metal/carbide; expensive.

    I'd like to see a desktop "silk spinner" which prints in carbon strand and epoxy like the huge contraption used to layup 787 fuselages now. 3D print a form or mandrel, and lay fiber over in a very precise, controlled pattern to reinforce it as needed. If that little "chamber" piece in the Liberator were a .25" thick section of dense carbon-fiber, it could probably hold back .357 (though you'd have a hard time getting the expanded case back out :D)

    The best use for 3D printing in manufacture has always been the rapid development of prototypes (as opposed to production) and tooling to make the real items. While 3D printing isn't as strong as cast metal, it's certainly strong enough to create moulds for lost-wax casting. It's strong enough to make dies for stamping soft, thin metal in a press (SLA plastics could probably handle even tougher jobs). It's strong enough to make moulds for casting polyurethane or other epoxies. It's dimensionally stable enough to work as a form for making fiber-reinforced shapes.

    TCB
     
  6. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    I was a skeptic, but this "liberator" has already put far more fear into the hearts of tyrants than the originals ever did. They're scrambling to try to shut down the information. That alone should be all the evidence we need of the importance of the design. As a firearm it is something of a joke, and inherently unsafe to use. But as an idea it's bottled lightning.

    Remember that firearms were at the cutting edge of the previous industrial revolutions. It was the Hall Rifle that paved the way towards interchangeable parts. Now it may be another failed gun design that ends up revolutionizing industry again. We shall see. It's sure scaring the bejesus out of our lords and masters.
     
  7. ldsgeek

    ldsgeek Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    110
    To answer two of your posts at the same time.

    First you mentioned that SLA is the strongest technology, stronger than FDM. You have that backwards, the resins used in SLA machines is far weaker than even the weakest ABS used in FDM, not dimensionally stable when exposed to UV and break down when exposed to UV, making that technology unsuitable for this task. You may have meant SLS (selective laser sintering) which can work in stronger materials including some metals. Those machines are an order of magnitude more expensive and require industrial power rather than 110VAC.

    As a user of FDM and Polyjet (Stratasys and Objet, I'm a certified tech for both) I have built the AR lower on both. The first model the DefCad tried that failed was built on a Polyjet machine of some type, it failed in 6 rounds. The One that has (so far) fired over 600 rounds was built on an FDM machine, something from the 768 class, either an sst768 or an Elite. These designs are, for the most part, proof of concept and will be improved rapidly. The choice of .380 was pure genius as in many countries citizens are prohibited from owning military and police caliber firearms, the .380 is allowed in most of these. In ComBlock countries and China, this design will likely be modified to use 9x18, some of which will probably be "found" after an officer gets a bribe to lose it.

    The company I work for services around 200 of the commercial grade FDM systems in New England. To give some idea of how many have been built, the serial numbers, starting from 1, have reached over 15000 on just one line of printers from one manufacturer. Factor in the reprap based machines and other smaller makers (which are far more affordable, although not as accurate) and we will soon see 100,000 in the field. For access to them, you can send a file and check or credit card to any of dozens of service bureaus to have parts made, or in some cities pay for access to a club/maker space that has one and build what you want. This technology is out there and is maturing rapidly, more rapidly than the PC in fact. As has been pointed out, the first, small LCD monitors were upwards of $1000 only 10-12 years ago, now you can buy a 27" for less than $200. How long do you think it will be before we can buy a 3d printer at Best Buy for under $500?
     
  8. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Location:
    Flower Mound, TX
    Back around 1958 , This Week Magazine (came in the Sunday paper) had a story about zip guns with pictures including a cutaway of one made from a Ronson lighter. Fired a .22 short. Being a normal 10yr old, I immediately made one. It was a lot cheaper than using an $8000 printer.
     
  9. Bruno2

    Bruno2 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    Tulsa , Oklahoma
    I heard a figure of at least 100,000 copies of the program downloaded from their site alone. There must be millions of them out in circulation now.

    What does gov do now?
     
  10. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Probably audit us.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page