powwowell
Member
I keep running across references to 3rd generation S&W's in various posts. I hate to show my ignorance, but what models are 3rd generation? What are the improvements over the 1st and 2nd generation models?
3rd generation S&W?
- Thread starter powwowell
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In a nutshell:
First Gen: the 39 and 59 both in 9mm.
2nd Gen: introduced stainless steel, adjustable sights, and small technical advances. Two gip panels are held on by screws. 9mm and .45. Three number model designations are used
3rd Gen: The Delrin/Xenoy one piece wraparound grips are used. The internals were upgraded and a four digit designation was used. Guns were produced in 9mm, .45, 10mm, and .40.
First Gen: the 39 and 59 both in 9mm.
2nd Gen: introduced stainless steel, adjustable sights, and small technical advances. Two gip panels are held on by screws. 9mm and .45. Three number model designations are used
3rd Gen: The Delrin/Xenoy one piece wraparound grips are used. The internals were upgraded and a four digit designation was used. Guns were produced in 9mm, .45, 10mm, and .40.
JN01
Member
Some 1st Generation guns had reliability issues, pretty well worked out by the 2nd Generation, 3rd Generation made improvements in ergonomics and trigger pull.
highorder
Member
first generation: 2 digits. model 39
second generation: 3 digits model 659
third generation 4 digits model 5906
second generation: 3 digits model 659
third generation 4 digits model 5906
Just bought a NIB S&W 5906... awesome, awesome gun!!! Classic, all-metal feel, 'reeks' with quality, awesome shoot.
They stopped makin these about eight years ago... why I don't know (guess to make room for the new 'poly' guns - M&Ps, etc.), mistake!
They stopped makin these about eight years ago... why I don't know (guess to make room for the new 'poly' guns - M&Ps, etc.), mistake!
Yup, a real classic.
I'd also consider the 3913. It doesn't get much better than that if you can live with four less rounds. I recently fired my 3913 for the first time and I have rarely experienced such a smooth shooting gun. Besides being smooth, the accuracy was outstanding. It was exactly what a gun should be. If you like the SIG 239 you're going to love the 3913.
As to why Smith stopped making the 3rd Gen guns, who knows? Maybe all of the combinations became bewildering and diluted the line, at least as to civilian sales. Certainly they put their energy into the polymers, but they also brought out the 1911. No matter, with so many guns being offered so reasonably, new or as LE trade-ins, it's truly a great time to consider them.
Last night I did an inventory of my Smiths and found that (including a 4040PD and 457 on layaway) I have 15 smith semi autos, and I wouldnt part with a one of them:
Model 39
5903
3913
4586
4516-1
5943 SSV
CS9
645
745 IPSC
SW1911
SW99 .45
SW99C 9mm
457
4040PD Airlite
M&P.357
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It sort of snuck up on me. First it was the two SW99. Then I started thinking about how much I loved the 3rd Gens when they came out. Then the LE trade-ins started here locally and I also started eyeing some Smiths that had sat on the shelf for years and the prices had come down. Last night as I was doing the mental list I kept saying "oh yeah" and adding another until I hit 14.
Then I started figuring in the wheel guns:
4" M&P
5" M&P
Model 10
Model 19
Model 586
Model 60 5" .357
And heck, now that I'm thinking about it I also have an M&P.357 (the .40 S&W barrel ought to be here today). I'll have to edit that. I guess I have 15 semi-autos and a total of 21 Smiths. I guess I'm also a collector
OP
OP
powwowell
Member
Thanks. I know more now about S&W autos.
Thanks for the information concerning 3rd generation S&W's. I now can look at CDNNs magazine and make better sense of the various S&W models that are offered.
Larry
Thanks for the information concerning 3rd generation S&W's. I now can look at CDNNs magazine and make better sense of the various S&W models that are offered.
Larry
schmeky
Member
Storm,
I hate folks like you
Now on a serious note, how do you feel about the S&W 645 vs the 745? I know the differences between the two, but as far as practical shooting "feel" and accuracy is concerned, is there a significant difference? Have you done anything to the SA trigger on the 645?
I'm currently high bidder on a 4506 on Gunbroker. If I win, this will be my first S&W steel frame auto.
I hate folks like you
Now on a serious note, how do you feel about the S&W 645 vs the 745? I know the differences between the two, but as far as practical shooting "feel" and accuracy is concerned, is there a significant difference? Have you done anything to the SA trigger on the 645?
I'm currently high bidder on a 4506 on Gunbroker. If I win, this will be my first S&W steel frame auto.
I wish that I could answer that one. I just picked them both up in the past three weeks and haven't had the chance to put them through their paces yet. I'm replacing the recoil spring in the 645 and just realized that I forgot to order it when I ordered some other stuff from Wolff today. D'oh! The 645 was a police trade-in so the springs get changed.
The 745 is a virgin and I'm waiting for the right day to shoot it. I'm beginning to lose my patience and will get to it sooner than later. I think it would be fun to fire it side-by-side with the 645.
As to the SA trigger on the 645, I don't plan any changes other than possibly a lighter hammer spring. I'm getting a Wolff reduced hammer spring pack so one will go to my DAO 4586 (which needs it) and another to the 5903, which sort of needs it, and possibly one to the 645 in order of 16#, 17# and 18# to the 645. I see no need for stoning or a trigger job but I will continue to evaluate it as I shoot it. The 745 seems good to me to go.
Here they are:
PX15
Member
FWIW:
I bought a new S&W 3913 in 1995 and it has been a excellent pistol. (In fact my adult Son has already put "dibs" on it for inheritance purposes.)
Recently I saw an ad in the CDNN (paper) catalog for NIB S&W 6906 (&5906) 3rd gen pistols, models of which are no longer in production, for $399.99. I did some research and found out the 6906 is the same pistol as the 3913, but in double-stack, so I bought one..
New 3rd gen S&W pistol w/lifetime warranty for less than $400.00. I'm well pleased with it. I thought the grip might be too thick for my tastes, but not so.
At the time I ordered my 6906 my CDNN salesman (Neal) told me the stack was shrinking fast on the 6906's so I ordered one just in time.. I noticed in the newest CDNN catalog the ad for the 6906 is missing, so guess they're all sold... I still see the ad for the 5906's and wish I had the money to buy one.
But I don't..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
I bought a new S&W 3913 in 1995 and it has been a excellent pistol. (In fact my adult Son has already put "dibs" on it for inheritance purposes.)
Recently I saw an ad in the CDNN (paper) catalog for NIB S&W 6906 (&5906) 3rd gen pistols, models of which are no longer in production, for $399.99. I did some research and found out the 6906 is the same pistol as the 3913, but in double-stack, so I bought one..
New 3rd gen S&W pistol w/lifetime warranty for less than $400.00. I'm well pleased with it. I thought the grip might be too thick for my tastes, but not so.
At the time I ordered my 6906 my CDNN salesman (Neal) told me the stack was shrinking fast on the 6906's so I ordered one just in time.. I noticed in the newest CDNN catalog the ad for the 6906 is missing, so guess they're all sold... I still see the ad for the 5906's and wish I had the money to buy one.
But I don't..
Best Wishes,
Jesse
Mortech
Member
2nd and 3rd S&Ws are what I now collect , S&W really dropped the ball when they stopped making them .
my first handgun was a 3rd generation s&w. a 3914.i have had it for almost 20 years,never had a malfunction. i also have a 3566 that i have not shot yet. nobody seemed to like them much until they went out of production,so i guess that's what happens.
chipperi
Member
This is my carry gun a 4516. Now can someone educate me what is the difference between the 4516 4516-1 and the 4516-2?
New 5906...
Just picked-up that 5906 from CDNN the other day... great gun! You really get a chance to see the quality of the gun when you field-strip/take-it-apart for cleanup! VERY WELL MADE!!!
If you like that 'heavy, all-metal feel' in a gun (which I love, having a bunch of CZs) you'll love this pistol. It's a 'classic 9mm'.
The S&W folks said they stopped selling it to 'retail' about eight years ago... but the gun is still being made in limited quantities FOR LE ONLY!... The 5904 (Black) has not been made since late 80's.
Just picked-up that 5906 from CDNN the other day... great gun! You really get a chance to see the quality of the gun when you field-strip/take-it-apart for cleanup! VERY WELL MADE!!!
If you like that 'heavy, all-metal feel' in a gun (which I love, having a bunch of CZs) you'll love this pistol. It's a 'classic 9mm'.
The S&W folks said they stopped selling it to 'retail' about eight years ago... but the gun is still being made in limited quantities FOR LE ONLY!... The 5904 (Black) has not been made since late 80's.
Storm,
I hate folks like you
BTW, just so you don't hate me too much <grin> I made a lot of trades to snag a lot of those most recent acquisitions. I've got a daughter starting college in a few weeks with out-of-state tuition, so money-out-of-pocket purcahses are for the msot part a thing of the past until further notice
On the trades I lost some money, and actually made some on a few guns, but in the end I think I will be better off for it. A few of the trades may come to haunt me, but it was nothing that can't be replaced. I had a chance to cherry-pick the trade-ins so how could I resist?BTW, so you can go back to hating me <even bigger grin> I'll tell you that I paid $379 for the LNIB Model 745 10th Anniversay IPSC. They go for around $700
It's funny, I looked at that gun in the case for weeks but could never see the price tag on it as it was turned over. I figured the gun had to be in the $700 to $900 range, so I never looked. One day I did and when I saw the price I almost blurted out "you've got to be kidding." As I had store credit I just handed it back to the clerk and said "sold". The ISPC anniversary banner on the right side of the slide deosn't thrill me, but I have a sneaking suspicion this one is going to become one of my favorites.
tinygnat219
Member
This is my carry gun (the 3913) in conjunction with the 457. Both are nice little shooters, but I vastly prefer the 3913. This time, I added the ubitquitous knife that seems to be in most gun publication pictures.
I am in the market for a 3953, which is the DAO version of the 3913.
I am in the market for a 3953, which is the DAO version of the 3913.
PX15
Member
FWIW:
If I could manage to scrape up another $400 or so before the last of the CDNN NIB 5906's are sold I might buy one of those, just "fer"...
Normally my preference is just for compacts, but those all steel 5906's are classics and it would be nice to have one I think for maybe a "house gun"..
Now the only hard part is scrounging up the $400.
Too many good choices, too little money...
Just personal opinion, but there have a been a bunch of folks buying the surplus Sig P6's, and in fact I considered one myself... But when you consider you are getting a used pistol, abet a great one, with NO warranty, which will probably require at least a new recoil spring (and it seems a lot of folks do work on the heavy DA trigger too) a prudent person might do well to consider the alternative in the 3rd gen. smiths such as we are discussing.
I really liked the "feel" of the P6, but hated that ugly "curly" hammer, and apparently those produced before July 1989 are "iffy" about feeding jhp's too. I know from 13 years experience owning a 3913 (of which the 6906 is the same pistol in double-stack) that the 6906 should feed anything with a primer stuck in the back of it. So I opted for the 6906, and I'm glad I did. In fact, now that apparently the 6906's are all sold I'm VERY glad I did.
Guess it's just "you makes you choice and pays your money".. Nobodys right, and nobody's wrong..
Just personal opinion, no offense intended to those Sig P6 lovers.
Jesse
P.S. Here's photos of my 3913 & 6906..
If I could manage to scrape up another $400 or so before the last of the CDNN NIB 5906's are sold I might buy one of those, just "fer"...
Normally my preference is just for compacts, but those all steel 5906's are classics and it would be nice to have one I think for maybe a "house gun"..
Now the only hard part is scrounging up the $400.
Too many good choices, too little money...
Just personal opinion, but there have a been a bunch of folks buying the surplus Sig P6's, and in fact I considered one myself... But when you consider you are getting a used pistol, abet a great one, with NO warranty, which will probably require at least a new recoil spring (and it seems a lot of folks do work on the heavy DA trigger too) a prudent person might do well to consider the alternative in the 3rd gen. smiths such as we are discussing.
I really liked the "feel" of the P6, but hated that ugly "curly" hammer, and apparently those produced before July 1989 are "iffy" about feeding jhp's too. I know from 13 years experience owning a 3913 (of which the 6906 is the same pistol in double-stack) that the 6906 should feed anything with a primer stuck in the back of it. So I opted for the 6906, and I'm glad I did. In fact, now that apparently the 6906's are all sold I'm VERY glad I did.
Guess it's just "you makes you choice and pays your money".. Nobodys right, and nobody's wrong..
Just personal opinion, no offense intended to those Sig P6 lovers.
Jesse
P.S. Here's photos of my 3913 & 6906..
I wrote that yesterday, and today is my weekly Friday lunch at the range. I decided to put the 645 and 745 into the line-up along with a P2000SK and a little Kel-Tec P32 that I've been working with. I decided to start with the 645.
Dang, I love this gun. It's a heavy brute but I was keeping everything really tight out at ten to fifteen yards. The gun is smooth and points where I aim it, just a bit to the left. The gun made me look decent for a first shooting, but there were some really crappy shooters at the range today. I was shooting at 8" splatter targets and everything was well within the 9 ring four inches or less. Not great, but I was more looking at reliability and getting a feel for the gun. I was also shooting trying to guage the ability for a follow-up shot, so I suspect that grouping could well be half the size or less with more use. Function was perfect with WWB. I put the gun down as a keeper.
I next picked up the 745, loaded it, cocked the hammer, squeezed the trigger and click....silence. Click...silence. Click...silence, so on and so forth. The hammer was falling to almost a half-cock point and dropping no further. I futzed around with it a bit but didn't want to waste range time on it. I then went back and worked with the 645 shooting double action. Sweet! I was a little distracted by the problem with the 745 but found the double action pull to be just fine and the gun very accurate in that firing mode with only a little loss in accuracy over single action. It took more effort, but it was worth it.
The gunsmith is right on the way back from the range, so I stopped in. Of course the gun wasn't doing it with the smith, but eventually it started to happen with about every tenth pull of the trigger and most frequently right after cycling the slide. This smith has worked on a lot of Smiths over the years and said that it isn't an optimal system as the 745 is a DAO converted from a SA/DA gun. He said that with the 745 there are certain trigger adjustments that can be made that may well be the problem. Apparently there is a take-up adjustment down by the trigger as well as a trigger stop adjustment. He'll figure it out. After inspecting the gun he said that there was absolutely no evidence wahtsoever that the gun had been shot, so it had maybe come from the factory like that, or some setting right on the dge had changed over the years. The gun came from the Lear Seigel years, so who knows. I still think the gun could be outstanding.
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