4" 1911?

[Calumus]

Can anyone recomend a good 4" 1911? I'm looking for my 1st handgun and am looking forward 3 months or so to the day I'll be living in Pa. and can get a CCW. I want a 1911 for my 1st piece, but I want one that can be carried comfortably, and is still good for throwing a bunch of rounds down the range on weekends. I'm looking at the Wilson KZ-45 compact, and am pretty sure that's the way I'll go, but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions as the Wilson's at the absolute TOP of my price range. Thanks in advance,
Shawn

 

[Bacchus]

Wilsons are really nice guns. Will this be your first 1911 or first gun? Sorry if I misunderstood your original post.

You may want to take a look at www.1911forum.com

Lots of info about 1911s in general and Wilsons specifically.

 

[Calumus]

1st handgun. I've been lurking here and at 1911forum.com for the last few months while waiting for my NJ permit. It was actually through these 2 sites, and a subsequent trip to a firing range to rent a 1911 that made me decide on some sort of 1911 instead of the Jersey standard issue Glock that everyone around here thinks God himself uses for his smiting . I'm just trying to get a broad sampling of 4" ers that people like. Thanks,
Shawn

 

[corncob]

I just got my first handgun--a Series I Kimber ProCarry. I've put 200 rounds through it so far, and haven't had any problems. It has an aluminum frame, and is surprisingly lightweight. Unless you get one used, the Series I's are almost all gone, I just happened to get lucky. Of course, most people would never notice the extra parts in the Series II unless they tried shooting it upside down, from what I hear. I didn't set out looking for a Kimber, but it was the only gun I could find that had the stuff I wanted without the stuff I didn't. Plus I just liked the way it fit my hand.

 

[TarpleyG]

While I have a 4" 1911 (Pro Carry), I would advise that you stick to the full size. The shorter versions always seem to be prone to some idiosyncrasy or another that the GMs do not have. My Pro Carry is an original (pre Series II) and I have had only minor issues with it. Besides that, the ballistics for the .45 ACP round are developed for the full size model.

GT

 

[Fed168]

Some love them, some hate them, but take a look at the Springfield Armory loaded series. Mine is an aluminium full size, very comfortable to carry and shoot.

 

[Biff]

I REEEEEALLY like my Springfield Champion! And it really likes Chip McCormack and Wilson stainless mags.

 

[Jammer Six]

My opinion is simple. It is based on my own experience with 1911's.

The 1911 was designed to military specifications in a 5" (government model) size.

When you make it smaller than that or tighten it tighter than milspecs, reliability suffers.

Wilsons are tightened, and 4" isn't 5".

For my money, and when it's my life, (which is, well, always) I carry a Springfield Loaded model. Full size, and only as tight as milspecs. I also own a milspec, and some days, I have a hard time choosing.

Life is just so hard sometimes.

 

[Safety First]

Calamus, I too am thinking about a 1911 style .45 purchase later in the summer. I also looked at the Wilson KZ-45 compact as a contender. One thing I did not like ( other than the price) is the overall length is 8". If you carry it IWB, it would seem that the length would be uncomfortable. We can probably find something wrong with each gun we consider, I just thought I would share that with you in case it might make a difference. I carry IWB a Sig P-239 9mm now which is 6.6 inches and I would not want much more length than that. All things considered the Wilson does seem like a fine choice. Keep doing your research and you will make the right decision for you.

 

[Calumus]

Thanks everyone for your replys. I'll have to check out the Kimber pro-carry and the Springfield champion. I will be getting at least 1 full sized 1911 down the road, but I wanted my 1st gun to be the "utility" for CCW'ing and having fun at the range. It could be that I wouldn't mind carrying a full-sized, but I have no way of finding out until I have one, and I'd really hate have to wait a few more months while saving up, to carry comfortably because I'm now broke and the gun I bought doesn't sit quite right if you know what I mean. Thanks again for all the info everyone. Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Dave T]

The 1911 was designed to military specifications in a 5" (government model) size.

When you make it smaller than that or tighten it tighter than milspecs, reliability suffers.

Wilsons are tightened, and 4" isn't 5".

Perhaps you should have some personal experience with a particular weapon before making unfounded statements like the above.

I have a full size KZ-45 which is, according to you, tightened. It has now fired over 4300 rounds, most of which were reloads but also included several different factory JHPs. It has not malfunctioned in that time. I also have a KZ-45 Compact (4" barrel) which has digested over 1500 rounds without a malfunction (I haven't owned it as long as the full size).

Oh by the way, the 5" wasn't:

designed to military specifications in a 5"

It was designed by JMB as a 5" and accepted by the Ordnance Dept. after extensive testing that has been discusses too many times to repeat now.

 

[Jammer Six]

I'll have to check out the Kimber pro-carry and the Springfield champion. I will be getting at least 1 full sized 1911 down the road, but I wanted my 1st gun to be the "utility" for CCW'ing and having fun at the range.

I probably should have said something about that, too.

One of the revelations I had when I finally got rid of the Micro (a tiny, 3" barrel, with an Officer's size frame) was that a full size weapon is no more difficult to conceal than the smallest 1911. The magic is in how thin the weapon is, not in how long or short.

My milspec didn't feel any heavier than the Micro, and both the Loaded model and the milspec were lightyears more reliable than the Micro.

I would only recommend a small or tightened 1911 to someone I was going to have to face in a gunfight.

 

[Smoke]

Fullsize are nice, but I love a Commander sized gun. I'll agree that the Full size is no harder to conceal than a 4" gun.

With that said. I have a Springfield Champion, a Kimber Pro Carry CDP (Series I) and a Para Ordnance P13. All perform Perfectly. I also have a Kimber Ultra Carry CDP. (3", officers frame) It has never hiccuped either. I would trust any of these guns with my life. They have proven their reliability to me.

As for weight and concealment. It is easier to conceal a sub compact such as the Ultra Carry. And after carrying a fullsize all day you will notice the weight savings in a lighter gun.

My experience....


Smoke

 

[hube1236]

Champion

I sent mine back to SA for some front strap checkering and now it is a joy to shoot. It is very, very accurate. The trigger is a little stiff and I am wondering about lowering it on a carry gun. Out of the box it functioned flawlessly except for ejecting that last unfired round (clearing the gun) when I sent it back to the factory (on them) they did the checkering, fixed the ejection system, gave me a new trigger and slide stop (don't know why) and returned it with a coffee mug (I was schmooozing the rep for goodies).

Now it sucks that I had this problem, but it was fixed and my overall feeling is to still recommend you check out this gun.

 

[ID_shooting]

"Of course, most people would never notice the extra parts in the Series II unless they tried shooting it upside down, from what I hear."

You know I read this same thing a while back so I took my series II and shot it updise down. Other than not hitting a damn thing but dirt, it worked fine.

I have full faith that if I was strung up by my feet for some odd reason. I could shoot the gun.

Sorry for not really being on thread, but I had to counter that qoute

 

[Ninj500]

I have a Series I Kimber ProCarry HD that will most likely be my main CCW piece. To me the 4" gun just feels better than the full size YMMV. The ProCarry is reliable, accurate and easy to conceal with a comp-tac shirt tucker holster because it's so thin. My secondary CCW gun is a Glock 30 which is lighter but harder to conceal because of how think it is.

I also had a ultra compact Springfield Mil-Spec that was great. I'm still kicking myself for trading it off. I did not experience the reliability problems some have had with the smaller 1911's. In fact, it didn't malfunction once the entire time I owned it.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Kimber

Between a couple friends and I we have over a dozen of most everything Kimber makes.
5 or 6 are 3 inch barrels. NONE of the 3 inch barrel problems people talk about.

I don't like the "Pro" long grip. I want my compact to be compact.

One friend's wife bought him a Wilson 4 inch (in the $2,000 range).
Very nice gun but he and I like our Kimbers better.

He won't tell his wife that though

I carry what is the latest and I think best.
The Tactical Ultra ll. (3 inch barrel)
They sell for about $920, out the door, at the gun shows.

As for the accuracy.
The 3 inch Kimbers (at least the ones I've shot) will keep all shots in the 5 (12 inch center) of the Texas CHL 15 yard target at 50 yards.

When I do my part of course

 

[Stasher1]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend a Series II Kimber to anybody. My Stainless Pro Carry II hasn't made it through a single range trip without some kind of malfunction.

The slide stop wasn't properly manufactured or fitted and locked the slide back every couple rounds, the original mag catch was poorly manufactured and allowed the mag to sit too low in the frame causing failures to feed, the replacement mag catch broke in half while I was shooting on Tuesday of last week and dropped a half-full mag on the ground, the firing pin safety was causing failures to return to battery because they (Kimber) never even took the time to radius the slide mounted and frame mounted plungers.

This is supposed to be a carry gun? Why carry something that'll get you killed? Do yourself a favor and buy a Series I Kimber or something from Springfield, Dan Wesson, Colt, ect.

I'll never have another Series II Kimber.

Don't take this as a Kimber bashing post, because it's not. I've got a Series I Pro CDP that's been absolutely fantastic.

 

[flip180]

You know, I had problems from my series-II Kimber but,

they weren't Series-II related problems. I pretty much don't hang out on the www.m1911.org Kimber forums, because I've seen threads about nothing turn into a Series I/II debate. I love my Series-II Kimber and would buy another if I had the money to spend on one. Back on topic. I have a Stainless Compact-II and absolutley love it. The problems I had with it mere a poorly fitted and tuned extractor from the factory that I fixed myself with a set of miniature files, internet research, and my thumb. While I was at it I also fitted and installed an Ed-Brown extended ejector. Ejection problems solved. I carry my Kimber in a VM-II holster that when using the tuckable kydex clips is vurtually undectectable when wearing a tucked in shirt.

Robert.

 

[Ninj500]

I'm looking for a repacement to my loved and lost Springfield Mil-Spec Ultra Compact and have to admit the series II problems have scared me off Kimber. Even though my Series I is a great gun I don't have $800 to throw away on a gun that doesn't work. Yes, I understand I can get a bad one from anybody but at least Springfield's customer service department is helpful. The horror stories I've heard about Kimber scare me even more than the quality problems. It's not the mistake, but how the business handles it.

Gerard

 

[ID_shooting]

I agree, and I certianly do not want to turn this into a I vs. II agrument. I will leave it that my II only has issues with feed/accuracy with the crap blazer and lead ammo. all high end and my loads group great and feed perfectly.

 

[Marshall]

I'm looking for a repacement to my loved and lost Springfield Mil-Spec Ultra Compact and have to admit the series II problems have scared me off Kimber

Gerard,

How about another SA mil spec like you had?

OR, go for 2 more inches of mil spec in a 38 super! BEAUTIFUL!

OR, the opposite end of the spectrum has this "GI .45" Champion. I like it

 

[Ninj500]

Looking at the UC Mil-Spec picture is like looking at a picture of an old girlfriend you still have feelings for, painful, but at the same time thrilling. Another Springer UC Mil-Spec will most likely be my next firearms purchase.

To get this back on topic, if I was looking for another 4" gun I'd find a used Series I Kimber Pro Carry or go with a Springfield Champion.

 

[flip180]

I think the 1911 platform has too many expectations placed on it due to the technology employed with newer pistols like Glock and others that will feed anything. Me me the 1911 is like a tricked out '67 Mustang. Yeah it is nice, but it can sometimes be tempermental. Find out what your gun likes to eat and feed it a steady diet of the same stuff.

Robert.

 

[1911Tuner]

Experience

Dave T said:

Perhaps you should have some personal experience with a particular weapon before making unfounded statements like the above.
--------------------------------------

May I? Not to hijack...Just to offer another view.

I've been involved with 1911-pattern pistols since 1964, and one of the
things that I became acutely aware of was that as the slides got shorter,
the more tempramental the pistols got. I've never been a "Custom"
builder, per se...but rather more of a troubleshooter/repairman.
Whenever addressing a reliability issue on a 1911, the 5-inch guns
provide a much wider window of opportunity and margin for error.

While there are some examples of the micro and compact variety that are
boringly reliable, these don't tend to be representative of the breed...just
like there some full-sized pistols that are problem children from GO street.

They can be convinced to be reliable, but some of them can drive a troubleshooter nearly 'round the bend in the process. Some respond pretty quickly to conventional methods, while with others you have to get outside of the window at times.

Therefore, I'll go out on a limb and make a flat statement. No flames, please. This is a result of my own experience with the chopped pistols,
and is therefore subjective.

You will have a MUCH greater chance of getting a functionally reliable pistol with a full-sized model, and with most in the Commander class...4.25 inch
barrels. Below that line, things can get iffy...and even when you get one
that runs, a simple recoil spring change can throw it out of whack. A
fatigued magazine spring, likewise. Even a tired mainspring can have a
negative effect, since it plays a part in the slide velocity, too.

Just my nickel's worth...Be of good cheer and mindful of six.

Tuner