4 or 5 rung ladder?

conan32120

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
470
Location
free state of florida
I always use a 20 round box to hold my ladders, seems a good size to fit in my shooting bag and I usually bring multiples. If I use a 5 round step I end up with a 4 step ladder and if I use 3 round step I can get a 5 step ladder yet there are 5 empty slots. Why isn't a 4 round step ever mentioned? Why does it feel wrong? Don't recall ever seeing targets posted with a 4 hole group (unless the 5th shot is a real bad flyer lol). Am I missing something?
 
Don't recall ever seeing targets posted with a 4 hole group (unless the 5th shot is a real bad flyer lol). Am I missing something?

Think about it. If you haven't got it figured out in a week, get back to us, and we'll explain it.
 
I take a slightly different approach. Two rounds seems plenty for powder charges while three works well for seating test.
As @AJC1 says take plenty of sighters, I never fill up a box if even concern myself with such things, rather load what I want to test and save components for confirmation and practice.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2044.jpeg
    IMG_2044.jpeg
    98.7 KB · Views: 5
  • IMG_2026.jpeg
    IMG_2026.jpeg
    116.5 KB · Views: 5
Last edited:
I always use a 20 round box to hold my ladders, seems a good size to fit in my shooting bag and I usually bring multiples. If I use a 5 round step I end up with a 4 step ladder and if I use 3 round step I can get a 5 step ladder yet there are 5 empty slots. Why isn't a 4 round step ever mentioned? Why does it feel wrong? Don't recall ever seeing targets posted with a 4 hole group (unless the 5th shot is a real bad flyer lol). Am I missing something?
Use the extra holes for fowlers before you start testing.
 
Most of us ... well , at least myself ... use 50 round ammo boxes .
10 rows of 5 openings . For a gazillion years groups were tested in shots of 5 rounds , this was when powder , primer cases and bullets were cheap and in plentiful supply ... PSD ...Pre Shortage Days .
You would place 5 rounds in a row ...then skip a row... and set your next 5 rounds .

When shortages appeared the groups changed to 3 shot ... now with Brandonomics ... it's 1 shot groups !
Gary
 
Just for my own terminology a Rung would be a powder charge weight and not how many of that weight I load or shoot.

For instance I just started testing for a new bullet and wanted to know which of 3 powders would give the best results. I have published load data for each powder from a few sources, which of course do not coincide with one another. So I loaded ladders in .3 increments from start to max.. Loading for 3 of each. One powder only produced 6 rungs, second powder produced 9 rungs and the third powder would have produced 11 rungs but I dropped the lowest and highest charges for again 9 rungs.

From 100yds. When testing I shoot one rung each round robin at individual targets all at an even horizontal line. I look for POI shift and group size of the three shots. From this I can generally tell which are in need of further evaluation and which are a waste of time. Most time I am able to find two loads adjacent to each other that are nearly identical and also usually find two "nodes", a low and a high... Then there are ones that the whole test is just junk and that bullet, powder, rifle just do not work together.

From there I load up the better ones and move out to 200yds and shoot the same way. Results are usually similar though may vary slightly.
Then from there I load the most consistent of the groups and load in .1gr... .1gr below thru .1gr above, so if the group was as simple as 23.0 to 23.3 I would then load 29.9 through 23.4gr and shoot to verify. If it verifies I load again and repeat and then compare it to the previous test.

Yes this is a lot of testing and shooting but I do this because in the end I will be shooting 20 of these each week for a score for ten weeks. I don't now or care what the FPS is or the ES and SD is I just need to know I can hold a .5MOA XRING at 200yds. I trust my loads and I especially trust my targets.
 
Just for my own terminology a Rung would be a powder charge weight and not how many of that weight I load or shoot.

For instance I just started testing for a new bullet and wanted to know which of 3 powders would give the best results. I have published load data for each powder from a few sources, which of course do not coincide with one another. So I loaded ladders in .3 increments from start to max.. Loading for 3 of each. One powder only produced 6 rungs, second powder produced 9 rungs and the third powder would have produced 11 rungs but I dropped the lowest and highest charges for again 9 rungs.

From 100yds. When testing I shoot one rung each round robin at individual targets all at an even horizontal line. I look for POI shift and group size of the three shots. From this I can generally tell which are in need of further evaluation and which are a waste of time. Most time I am able to find two loads adjacent to each other that are nearly identical and also usually find two "nodes", a low and a high... Then there are ones that the whole test is just junk and that bullet, powder, rifle just do not work together.

From there I load up the better ones and move out to 200yds and shoot the same way. Results are usually similar though may vary slightly.
Then from there I load the most consistent of the groups and load in .1gr... .1gr below thru .1gr above, so if the group was as simple as 23.0 to 23.3 I would then load 29.9 through 23.4gr and shoot to verify. If it verifies I load again and repeat and then compare it to the previous test.

Yes this is a lot of testing and shooting but I do this because in the end I will be shooting 20 of these each week for a score for ten weeks. I don't now or care what the FPS is or the ES and SD is I just need to know I can hold a .5MOA XRING at 200yds. I trust my loads and I especially trust my targets.
Only problem is here in fla my barrel would get so hot from all those rounds it might melt 🤪
 
Only problem is here in fla my barrel would get so hot from all those rounds it might melt 🤪
Or just don't shoot so fast. Our range runs 15min shooting cycles which I can fire a nine shot volley in one cycle then about a 10min cease fire on average.
 
I do try to rotate thru different rifles but even a hammer gets hot down here, cooler weather coming tho
What your shooting has a huge amount to do with it. 257 Weatherby generates a huge amount of heat each shot and even 3 in a row may be a lot. 30-30 lever gun will be warm but not crazy. My 308 and 223 have very heavy barrels so strings of 10 aren't excessive. The more the overbore, the worse it is. 243 generates plenty, and I'd probably only go 5 and then cool. 6 if your shooting groups of 3.
 
Back
Top