.40 S&W Vs. 45 ACP

[Infantryman]

There are plenty of military complaints of lack of nockdown power from the 9mm. Alot of people say that for good nockdown power you need 44 Magnum or 45 ACP. But I wonder about 40 S&W. It is in the middle of the scale between 9mm & 45ACP.

 

[Cowboy2]

In reality, no pistol is going to knock a man down. For every action there is an equal, opposite, reaction.

Since the military has to use fmj's for the most part, any increase in diameter is going to be a plus. Also, with fmj's, penetration depth probably wouldn't be a major issue with any of the above cartridges.

 

[Archer1945]

I have both and personally I would not like to get hit by either one or, for that matter, a good 9mm round. Remember the military is restricted to hardball ammo in their guns, civilians don't have that problem and there are plenty of good JHP rounds available today that make anything from a .380 on up something you would not want to be shot with.

The .44 mag and its little brother the .41 mag might be the best defensive rounds available but you have to make sure you stop the threat with the first shot because you are not going to get a second shot off with them as fast as you can the 40 or 45acp.

 

[MarcusWendt]

It is my personal opinion that the .40 S&W gives you the best combination of capacity, size, and speed along with a huge number of platforms to choose from.

 

[kd7nqb]

I love the .40 but despise caliber wars. Let me say it, a .22lr is deadly with bad luck, a .50BMG while having a greater chance of killing is not 100%. Frankly I would rather see the military be able to use real personal defense rounds.

 

[saturno_v]

As far as I know the 40 is NOT between the 45 and the 9 mm, except only in diameter.
Standard 40 S&W loadings exceed in energy all standard 45 ACP and some +P variants from some manufacturers.
If you get the hottest 45 and the hottest 40 they are neck to neck in terms of energy....sometimes the posted numbers of the hottest 45 ACP may have a slight edge over the 40 but there is a catch....published data for the 40 almost always refer to 4 inches barrels, for the 45 ACP to 5 inches...a typical example of this is Double Tap ammo.
For the common self defense rounds the 40 S&W has better statistics in one shot stop situations than the 45 ACP, just behind the 357 Mag.

 

[Hunter0924]

Bear in mind that published energy is not the only factor to determine potential knock down power.
I feel sure the reason the .40 S&W has better statistics is it is more widely used than the .45 automatic.

 

[gb6491]

For the common self defense rounds the 40 S&W has better statistics in one shot stop situations than the 45 ACP, just behind the 357 Mag.

From what I've read the top 45ACP load is as effective as the top 357 with the 40 short and weak close behind: http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0
If any of that means anything.:
Regards,
Greg

 

[eldon519]

Energy doesn't tell the whole story. Energy is dispersed through many means, only one of which is actually doing destructive work (crushing/tearing tissue) on the victim. Temporary stretch cavity for instance is a relatively harmless mechanism that disperses energy. Energy only relates to what the round has the potential to do, penetration/expansion show what the round actually does with that energy.

 

[saturno_v]

I read that the 40 penetrates better than the 45 while still retaining very good "crushing tissue" capabilities.
I think the use of "knocking power" term is grossly inappropriate (and with Hollywood roots...) because you cannot knock down a man with a pistol bullet....otherwise you would fall on the ground with the recoil.....Newton docet.


Energy alone do not tell the whole story is true but still tells a lot....

I seriously doubt that a man hit by a 40 or a 45 (same bullet design) could tell the difference....even if we talk about an over 6 feet tall "gym-pumped-up" individual.

 

[DWARREN123]

I like the 40 S&W, I do not dislike the 45 ACP.

 

[chupacabrah]

I like 9mm, .40s&w, AND .45 acp.

I have a 9mm...because ammo is cheaper and I can practice more.

regardless of caliber, if you hit your target with a quality round, those fractions of an inch really won't matter. IMO, of course.

 

[Haycreek]

40 S&W vs 45

Energy is over emphacised all time. BIG bullets do the job better, just ask any hunter that goes to Africa for dangerous game. Some professional guides require that the client hunts with a caliber that starts with a "4". A 25/06 puts out a lot of muzzle energy, but I wouldn't hunt a Water Buffalo with one. There are a number of "factors", energy, momentom and others. Bottom line. Big Bullets are better, but both the 40 S&W and the 45 are good rounds.

 

[saturno_v]

I agree that energy alone is not sufficient but I do disagree with your generic statement "big bullets do the job better"
At some point energy difference plays a role...and with the same energy smaller front section bullets (and with a better sectional density) penetrate better,a feature that is some case you do want.

Are you implying a 45 ACP would put a deer down better than my 10 mm Auto???

The facts that some countries or hunting organizations in Africa require a minimum of 375 cal or better is because they cannot assess the ability of the hunter in advance so they think that even in a bad placed shot they still will make more damage...on top of that they, (the governments) cannot control what kind of bullets every hunter will bring (someone idiot could show up with some cheap soft point to shoot a buffalo) so imposing that minimum caliber they are sure that the hunters will use ammo with premium bullets (there are not commercial 375 rounds with cheap bullet so to speak)...in these "recreational" safaris everything is geared toward fun and 150 % safety for the hunter backed by an army of experienced guides....fairly pathetic if you ask me.....

If you want to know the truth, I bought my sporterized Mauser 98 in 30-06 from a retired South African cardiologist with more than 40 years of hunting experience in Africa..he told me that hunting a lion with a 375 is ridiculous and unnecessary..an 06 has WAY enough energy to do the job cleanly on lions......in these safaris on big cats the paying hunter shows up with his big bore cannon and guess what the experienced guides that back him up what they often use?? 7 mm Rem Magnum....

 

[loop]

Only a central nervous system hit will incapacitate immediately. Otherwise you must wait for bleed-out or hope shock sets in.

Bigger bullets are more likely to bring on shock (stopping power) because they affect more nerve endings.

If you don't get a CNS hit and must hope for shock then go with the bigger bullet. If you can wait 10 to 45 seconds for bleed-out it doesn't matter which size bullet you use.

Just hope the guy with the baseball bat decides to twiddle his thumbs for 10 to 45 seconds.

And, as for deer and 10mm vs. .45, it is a moot question unless the deer is attacking you. In deer hunting you can follow a blood trail. In self defense the blood trail could be yours.

My stepmother is from Kenya. She killed darn near everything you can imagine with a .303 Brit. She took down an elephant that was tromping through her garden with one and at least seven Mau Maus during an attack when her husband was away.

I think it was Peter Capstick who claimed the .303 Brit was the only gun an Afrikaner needed.

 

[Ala Dan]

No handgun caliber is going to cause body parts to go flying all over the
place; and MAY not even knock the perp down~! With that said, I see
NO need for the .40 caliber's existence; after all, the 9m/m and .45 ACP
have served many military's for a very long time. During the 90's, I owned
three .40 S&W caliber handguns [Glocks 23 & 27, and a SIG P229]; today
I own none. Two of the three (the G-27 and the SIG P229) were bought
NIB; with the G-23 being ever so slightly used. Of those three, I found
that I could shoot the G-27 the best; as I could not hit the broad side
of a darn barn with the other two. And, I've been shooting handguns
for 'bout 40 years~!

Today, my inventory contains several handguns chambered in 9m/m;
but most of my shooting is done with .45 ACP weaponary, such as
the 1911, Springfield XD, and the SIG-SAUER P220A~!

 

[PAPACHUCK]

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. A 9mm in the vitals will bring down a BG much faster than a miss with a 40 or 45.

Carry and shoot the largest caliber YOU can shoot effectively.

Most people can put more shots faster in the x-ring with a 9 than other larger calibers.

I like the 9mm, I love the .45 Auto. I really have no use for the .40.

But thats just me....

 

[Hokkmike]

I see
NO need for the .40 caliber's existence; after all, the 9m/m and .45 ACP
have served many military's for a very long time.

Innovation and development of new cartridges is as useful and essential as replacing the a carburetor with a fuel injection system. Just because something is first doesn't mean that it is better. I do respect the obvious credentials of your experience, however. I'll give yor comments some thought.

One thing I never did forsee, having purchased 2 .40 pistols and LOTS of ammo, is that some day I might want to buy a rifle in a pistol caliber. Guess what the only pistol caliber a rifle is unvailable in? Yep, the .40 S&W.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. A 9mm in the vitals will bring down a BG much faster than a miss with a 40 or 45.

True of any caliber. I find it no less difficult to hit with a .40 than a 9mm.

I have a 9mm...because ammo is cheaper and I can practice more.

Ultimately, the way ammo prices are going I guess we'll all be better off practicing with .22's. But you have a good point. People should practice with the pistol they actually want to use for self defense.

 

[Aceoky]

Guess what the only pistol caliber a rifle is unvailable in? Yep, the .40 S&W.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/carbines/40carbine/40_carbine.html

I own and shoot .380, 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP and any/either will no doubt do the job IF I do mine (shot placement IS "the key" IMO) I also reload and cast bullets for these......

IMHO the .40 is a nice round and very effective as proven by the LEO Departments that have gone to using it as primary issued weapon.

And IF I "knew" trouble were on the way, I'd use a 12 gauge (OO Buck) and back it up with my 30/06

 

[DougDubya]

"Big bullets."

We're talking objects that are miniscule in mass and size compared to the human body, gang.

I'm 68 inches tall, and at my thickest, I'm about 46 inches in circumference. Just going on height, I'm 192 times the size of a 9mm, 170 times the size of a .40 and 151 times the size of a .45 in that oh so-special "caliber."

A difference of what, 41 points in terms of size? And I'm a little, if rotund, guy. What if you're shooting at someone who's REALLY big and muscular? Let's take the 6'7" Duane Johnson (the Rock) as an example.

El Rock is 175 times bigger than that "huge" .45, and a mere 223 times the size of a 9mm.

The reason I'm not going into the mass difference between bullets and the humans they are meant to stop is because the difference is even more dramatic, showing how puny a handgun round is, and because the issue is "size of the bullet."

The above numbers were not meant to be scientific, because honestly, I'm too lazy right now to go into cubic measurements of size.

We're just talking about handguns, folks. You want a big wounding weapon, get a rifle, or maybe an arbalest - nothing says big bullet like a sharpened log meant to destroy castle walls.

 

[DougDubya]

Hokkmike - the Cx4 Storm carbine is available in .40 S&W. As is the HiPoint, and the Sub2000 (http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.html).

Your argument fails due to insufficient research. Try again.

 

[mavracer]

Guess what the only pistol caliber a rifle is unvailable in? Yep, the .40 S&W.

the beretta storm and ruger pc4 are avaliable in 40.

And IF I "knew" trouble were on the way, I'd use a 12 gauge (OO Buck) and back it up with my 30/06

switch that around use the 06 when there farther away at first