JohnBiltz
Member
Another way to look at it is less rounds than a 9mm and more recoil than a .45.
.40 The best "compromise caliber"
- Thread starter tackleberry45
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The 40 S&W flat point ammunition (UMC bulk, etc.) will outperform 45 ACP ball ammunition on live targets. Don't know why you can't get cheap flat pt FMJ 45 ACP, would seem like a no brainer - I would buy it for my 45...
David
ALL calibers are compromises, or rather sets of compromises.
longshot7.62x51
Member
can: i would love to use .40 or .45 but i am relagreaded to using 115g FMJ out of a Baretta M9 so it is a moot point.
i was just trying to explain where i thought this debate came from thous of us in the mil who are not able to use anything but issue ammo (laws of land warfare prevent use of expanding ammo) wile all 3 round are sufficent to relagate your target to the past tense the wound channal on a .45 is bigger than a .40 witch is bigger than a 9mm when using Ball ammo (FMJ) now a 9mm 124g JHP (jacketed hollow point) vs. 45 230g FMJ i would take the 9mm cause i can carry more and the wound channal diffrence is neglageable. i hope this dosent annoy any one that was not my intent only to clarify what i said in my last post.
Ps would take 40 JHP over 9mm JHP and 45 .230 FMJ but unc SAM has spoken and i have NO CHOICE
Also noted that My main weapon is a 120mm cannon with a secondary 2 M240s and 1 M2 with 3 feet of armor around. Or an M4 when I'm on the ground
i was just trying to explain where i thought this debate came from thous of us in the mil who are not able to use anything but issue ammo (laws of land warfare prevent use of expanding ammo) wile all 3 round are sufficent to relagate your target to the past tense the wound channal on a .45 is bigger than a .40 witch is bigger than a 9mm when using Ball ammo (FMJ) now a 9mm 124g JHP (jacketed hollow point) vs. 45 230g FMJ i would take the 9mm cause i can carry more and the wound channal diffrence is neglageable. i hope this dosent annoy any one that was not my intent only to clarify what i said in my last post.
Ps would take 40 JHP over 9mm JHP and 45 .230 FMJ but unc SAM has spoken and i have NO CHOICE
Also noted that My main weapon is a 120mm cannon with a secondary 2 M240s and 1 M2 with 3 feet of armor around. Or an M4 when I'm on the ground
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REAPER4206969
Member
M882 ball is 124gr.
I have always been under the impression that the .40 is a compromise in that it is between 9 and .45 but is actually better than both, at least performance wise.
Again, not from personal experience or anything, but I understand the .40 penetrates obstacles better than either caliber (.45 being to slow) and also has more round capacity than .45, but is also fairly comparable to the .45 as far as energy (or at least significantly more so than the 9mm)
It isn't really pertinent to talk about personal skill or controllability in a caliber war, because it is different for each person and obviously the caliber you shoot best with is the one that is best for you, nullifying all the other points in a caliber war, which is why I think these things go in a circle.
Again, not from personal experience or anything, but I understand the .40 penetrates obstacles better than either caliber (.45 being to slow) and also has more round capacity than .45, but is also fairly comparable to the .45 as far as energy (or at least significantly more so than the 9mm)
It isn't really pertinent to talk about personal skill or controllability in a caliber war, because it is different for each person and obviously the caliber you shoot best with is the one that is best for you, nullifying all the other points in a caliber war, which is why I think these things go in a circle.
Most people will tell you that 9mm, 40, and 45 are all exactly the same. But a lot of people will say a 38 +P 158 gr load is superior to 9mm - and .357 magnum? Fagheddaboutit. Most people think it's in another league compared to 9mm.
Well, out of a CCW size handgun, 40 trumps .357 magnum in bullet weight and velocity.
Most people will acknowledge that a 10mm is more powerful than a .45. Well, the 40SW shoots the exact same bullets (except maybe the 230 gr Double Tap stuff), also with more power than a .45. So if you wanna call 40SW a compromise between 9mm and 45, you'd have to say the same thing about 10mm. So why is no one asking "10mm. Is it the ideal compromise between 9mm and 45ACP?"
If you wanna call it a compromise, be realistic. It's a compromise between 9mm and 10mm. Or between 9mm and 45 Super. That's not so say it's a more statistically effective cartridge for self defense. But it has a lot more going for it than a few extra rounds compared to 45.
Well, out of a CCW size handgun, 40 trumps .357 magnum in bullet weight and velocity.
Most people will acknowledge that a 10mm is more powerful than a .45. Well, the 40SW shoots the exact same bullets (except maybe the 230 gr Double Tap stuff), also with more power than a .45. So if you wanna call 40SW a compromise between 9mm and 45, you'd have to say the same thing about 10mm. So why is no one asking "10mm. Is it the ideal compromise between 9mm and 45ACP?"
If you wanna call it a compromise, be realistic. It's a compromise between 9mm and 10mm. Or between 9mm and 45 Super. That's not so say it's a more statistically effective cartridge for self defense. But it has a lot more going for it than a few extra rounds compared to 45.
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1stmarine
Member
The caliber has nothing to do with the capability of the round to penetrate.
It will depend on the purpose of that penetration and whether the cartridge yields itself as a good option for such purpose.
The 40 caliber is a very serious option but not the only serious option and all ammunition and corresponding systems have evolved A LOT after the years and after the infamous Miami shoot-out.
I shoot 40cal,9mm,SIG and carry any of them any given time and I don't feel any disadvantage carrying either defensively talking in real life situation.
The 9mm loads I shot in the service using the Beretta 92 were well regarded and pretty lethal in the hands of a good shooter.
I can do good placement with any of those rounds with hard hitting solid hollow points and that what it counts.
I find these to be extremely effective rounds to carry:
40S&W Golden Saber JHP or HydraShok JHP
9mm Cor-Bon +P JHP
.357 SIG Speer gold dot / Premium JHP
Any of those is a great option with the right pistol that feels good to you. Proper maintenance of the systems (including preventive maintenance), training, conditioning and shooting every week defensive shooting is far more important than anything else.
That is the compromise.
Cheers,
E.
It will depend on the purpose of that penetration and whether the cartridge yields itself as a good option for such purpose.
The 40 caliber is a very serious option but not the only serious option and all ammunition and corresponding systems have evolved A LOT after the years and after the infamous Miami shoot-out.
I shoot 40cal,9mm,SIG and carry any of them any given time and I don't feel any disadvantage carrying either defensively talking in real life situation.
The 9mm loads I shot in the service using the Beretta 92 were well regarded and pretty lethal in the hands of a good shooter.
I can do good placement with any of those rounds with hard hitting solid hollow points and that what it counts.
I find these to be extremely effective rounds to carry:
40S&W Golden Saber JHP or HydraShok JHP
9mm Cor-Bon +P JHP
.357 SIG Speer gold dot / Premium JHP
Any of those is a great option with the right pistol that feels good to you. Proper maintenance of the systems (including preventive maintenance), training, conditioning and shooting every week defensive shooting is far more important than anything else.
That is the compromise.
Cheers,
E.
lemaymiami
Member
I have to agree with those that find value in each caliber. A handgun, though, is what you use because you couldn't get to something better. Over years I've learned to bring a shotgun to the party every time (it would be a rifle for ranges above 50meters) when possible.
longshot7.62x51
Member
reaper: i stand corrected thank you
REAPER4206969
Member
You're welcome.
Like so many things, it's a matter of perspective. 9mm and .45 ACP have been around for far longer, and .40 S&W fits nicely in between them in many respects (not entirely, but close enough), so it could be (and is frequently) viewed as a "compromise" between the older calibers. However, the problem with the word "compromise" is that it inherently carries a negative connotation, and the common and repeated use of it to label certain things, such as .40 S&W, tends to imply that other things, such as 9mm and .45 ACP, are somehow not compromises themselves (and are therefore superior in the view of some). This is not true, as from the broader perspective of all calibers, every single one of them involves compromises (i.e. trade-offs). Put another way, if .40 S&W is a "compromise" between 9mm and .45 ACP, then 9mm is a "compromise" between .380 ACP and .40 S&W (for example). It's really just a matter of being fair to all, which is why I don't favor terms such as "compromise caliber."
.40 S&W is arguably better optimized for certain people and roles (such as law enforcement, I use it myself because it happens to suit me and my preferences), but I would not say that it's just plain better than either of the others, as they both have their own advantages.
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