.40 caliber

[Mad Magyar]

There was a thread about bashing the .40 cal. and one of the reasons included: "Why bother with another ammo for a handgun?" Could you believe such nonsense? Now, if you really want a nicely built .40, the Koreans know how to build a gun...

 

[Werewolf]

.40S&W will do the job be it putting down a home invader, shooting in an IPSC match or just plain plinking.

The recoil out of a G22 is indeed a bit - hell - a lot snappy but the exact same round out of a CZ-75 is a pussycat.

Caliber wars are fun and more often than not quite informative but when push comes to shove the caliber one uses for a particular task is the one the user is most familiar and comfortable with.

If you like .40 then shoot it...

ASIDE: .40S&W is my favorite caliber, oh wait I really like .45LC, but then .38spl is fun and .357Mag and .44Mag are a real hoot, and I especially like shooting my one hole maker .45ACP..

OH HELL - they're all great -well - except 9mm - only pussies shoot 9mm WAIT - damn - I shoot 9mm too...

 

[Marshall]

If you like the gun itself, keep it. If not, trade it. Just don't do it on caliber alone. The 40S&W is a fine caliber.

 

[Elmer]

If you like the gun itself, keep it. If not, trade it. Just don't do it on caliber alone. The 40S&W is a fine caliber.

Excellent advice....

.40S&W will do the job be it putting down a home invader...

Yup.... just like a good 9mm

There's nothing wrong with the .40. But folks who think that it's a huge improvement over 9mm, or that it's equal to a .45, have been reading too many gun magazines.

 

[carolinaman]

Hi there,

The .40 S&W is more that adequate for self-defense in the range of modern handgun calibres.

Here is my CWP G-23 that I have owned and shot for several years.



Another decade of shooting statistics and time will tell on its "street performance".

Chris

 

[shattered00]

I guess my problem is that I have only shot one other handgun before (not including a 6-shot .22 revolver ahhah), therefore I cannot tell whether I like this gun or not. The other handgun I fired was made by Sig, and the FBI used it at some point. It was the pistol that they used before they started mainlining the glock 22. I do not remember what caliber it was in, nor do I remember the model number( I received a concussion shortly after and most short-term/recent memories decided to escape from my hippocampus). It did not have as much of a snap, but the overall size of the pistol seemed roughly the same.

As someone said, I will probably keep this gun due to it being my very first pistol (and gun) ever.

I am not worried about target shooting or "bullseye" or whatever it is called. I just want to be able to shoot anything that poses itself as a danger to me when adrenaline is pulsating throughout my body.

I am taking the course for the concealed handgun license on the 18th of December. I have seen many book titles posted on rifle tactics, but little on the handgun. Any suggestions? It need not be a book; it could be an internet article or any other piece of literary work that might help me.

This thread has gone totally off topic-sorry about that.

P.S. If I came across a video that has a North Korean bodyguard training with some pistol, could I post the link and have yall attempt to tell me what type of pistol it might be? Mad Magyer posted the pic of that pistol and said Korea makes good guns which reminded me of the video. It might be impossible to tell, because almost no clear shot of the pistol is presented. I thought it would be worth a shot though (pun intended ). The video is about 3 min long and the shooting part is near around 1:50 and lasts about 10 seconds or so. It takes about 10 seconds to buffer with a standard broadband connection. The link opens up WMP directly where the video begins to play. That is all I can think of to say about the video. Someone give me permission to post

 

[cookekdjr]

Shattered00,
Before going to the feds I was a homicide prosecutor for many years. I have seen first hand the performance or lack of performance of a number of different calibers.
.40 S&W is one of the best defensive calibers in the world. Rarely does it fail to kill or disable the person it's used on. I have found it to perform very similarly to .45 ACP.
Personally, I prefer .45 because of it's heavier bullet and less-snappy recoil. But plenty of folks disagree with me, and most LE officers I've talked with love their Glock 22,23, and 27's in .40 cal.
BTW, .40 cal ballistics have a long history. Lots of folks carried Colt SAA's in 38-40, which had identical ballistics of the 180gr .40 S&W load (180gr at approx 950fps).
If you enjoy the Glock and can shoot it well, keep it. Try other guns and other calibers if you want to find your "soulmate" gun, but you will be well-served by the Glock .40.
-David

 

[JDGray]

Shattered00, Glocks are great guns in panic situations because of no safties. It takes alot of practice to draw a weapon, point and shoot, and hit in the kill zone. To do that,and worry about a safety, is even harder to do. It's nice to see someone honest about their shooting skills, I've read alot of post where guys are shooting 50yrds freehand, in 1 inch groups. Now after reading all that, I too must suck at shooting! Practice drawing your gun, and geting off 2 quick shots at a shillouett target at 12 to 20 feet, cause thats all a short barreled handgun is good for! Keep the Glock and practice, alot! JDGray

 

[WarMachine]

All this ballistics talk, and putting down attackers aside...

I was wondering your opinion on the shootability of your GLOCK 22? How's recoil and recovery?

 

[Werewolf]

All this ballistics talk, and putting down attackers aside...

I was wondering your opinion on the shootability of your GLOCK 22? How's recoil and recovery?

Having owned and shot 1000's of rounds out of a G22 I'll take a shot at that.

The G22 is relatively light. This accentuates the very snappy recoil of the .40S&W. Add to that the funny grip angle and the mushy trigger and for me at least that equaled a pistol I could never shoot as well as all my other pistols.

What's that mean? It means that at 25 yards I had 12" groups (on a good day); at 15 my groups shrank to pie plate size and at 7 yards to around 4" or so. That's the best I could ever do with the G22. Compared to how well I shoot my CZ-75 and 1911 that's a pure unadulterated abortion. There wasn't a darn thing wrong with that Glock 22. It could shoot a lot better than that - just not in my hands.

That doesn't mean the G22 is a bad pistol - it isn't. I'd recommend one to anybody. It always went bang - every time without a single ever FTF or FTE. I dropped it twice over a two year period on concrete while it was loaded with one in the pipe and it didn't discharge. It is easy to disassemble and easy to clean and for the price was worth every penny I paid for it - HELL - it was my carry gun for over a year because I KNEW I could depend on it (and to be honest I don't have that same feeling of dependability on a single one of my other pistols).

I could just never learn to shoot it worth a darn no matter how much I practiced with it.

 

[rockstar.esq]

In actual use on the street there is no difference between the 357sig, 40S&W and 45acp.

Roger that Mete

Not to ruffle any feathers but I don't really think that the same platform (same manufacturer, same frame size,etc) different caliber baseline of recoil comparison is done enough. That is to say that I hear a lot of "more than a nine,less than a .45acp" having shot this type of comparison I can only say that way too much time is wasted on recoil. The differences are slight and certainly not enough to create undue influence except for the feeble. As some posters have said, if it shoots for you then stick with it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Did you forget about this baby?

I'm still trying to figure out how to conceal mine without a trenchcoat. Thus far, no success. Especially not with the Burris 1.5-4x scope on it But I can kill bowling pins at 100 yards all day from the bench

and has almost the same, and in some instances more, stopping power as the .45acp.

The numbers posted have a +/- error margin that can tip the balance. But that is irrelavent, because no standard caliber handgun can be trusted to exact a quick stop with anything short of a central nervous system shot. They simply do not produce the velocity to impart temporary cavity stretch and hydraulic shock to a significant degree. Handgun rounds wound by crushing and, to a lesser extent, tearing. So, after penetration, frontal diameter is a primary concern when selecting a defensive handgun cartridge. Hollow points and other expanding bullets do even the playing field a bit, but a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.

My primary CCW is a Witness Compact 10mm, stoked with my own nuclear handloads. I figure 11 rounds of Gold Sabres with 721 ft/lbs each should give me a fighting chance (BTW, that is from a 3.5" barrel;790 from a 5") They still will not gaurantee a one-shot stop. But until I get the Desert Eagle .50 Or Ruger 7.5" .454 concealment down, it'll have to do. On lighter Clothing days, it is my new Taurus PT145 mil pro with 230 grain El Dorado Star Fires.

 

[Mixlesplick]

I think you should stick with the Glock 22. After shooting that for a while the 9mm and .45 acp will feel tame. I really like the feedback I get from shooting the .40 S&W in my little Kahr. When I switch to my Beretta 92 in 9mm it doesn't even feel like I am shooting a real gun.

 

[Erik]

Your as reasonably armed with your G22 as you will be with any other pistol in any other chambering.

So, that said, if caliber concerns are your only ones, then you aught have none.

 

[Biker]

I bought my G23 in the early 90s. After putting maybe 1000 rounds through it with no problems, I installed a 3.5 lb connector and a Hart's Recoil Reducer.
Neither was needed, but I'd heard good things about both. 16,000 plus rounds later without a single malfunction, I'm as happy as a rooster in a full henhouse.
Biker

 

[TomN]

.40 is fine. 9mm is fine. .45 is fine. It's about the shot placement baby.

 

[1911 guy]

Forty is fine

First off, I'll say that my personal prefference leans toward the .45acp. That's out of the way, so let's talk about your .40 cal. It's fine. At ranges you'll be likely to need a defensive handgun, it will serve you as well as any other .38 or larger caliber. I handle the rolling recoil of the .45 better myself, but I'm not the one shooting your Glock. If there's something about the platform you don't like, ditch it and replace with something more suitable. If it's just caliber concerns, I'll advise to not sweat it and enjoy your pistol.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_Glock_22___40S_W_Pistol.html

Any opinions on the Glock 23?

 

[Rob1035]

G23- I shot one recently, and the recoil was not horribly worse than a G19 or G26. I absolutely love the frame size (19/23/33? I think), fits my hand perfectly.

I happen to be a 9mm fan, so the G26 (and 19 soon) will be my tools.

 

[TwoGun]

Ah once again! A caliber debate! Okay I'll bite. Shot place is significantly more important than caliber. Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice, (or more). Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot quickly and accuractely.

That being said, I live in a place where it it cold a significnat part of the year and people wear lots of warm clothing, including the BGs. Pretty much any caliber depends on a hollowpoint to get expansion. But a hollowpoint will act like a cookie cutter and will fill up with material from heavy layers of clothing and then becomes non expanding in most instances. When compairing non expanding ammo, bigger around is usually better. I like the .40 and there is a reason why a significant number of law enforcement agencies carry .40s. But my carry gun is a .45. I if lived in south Texas again, I wouldn't be opposed to a 9MM, however, see the last sentance in the first paragraph.

If you like the gun keep it. YOU are a much larger factor in any altercation than the gun is. Rather than worring about caliber so much, worry about your own abilities and training.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Like most of us, I saw no need for the .40.
Now, it is my favorite.
Good .40's include;
Glock 20's converted to .40 with a match barrel. My best off hand shooter. A gun built for 10mm handles the .40 with ease.
-
H&K USP- not extremly accurate IMO, but reliable and soft shooting. The USP is pretty much bomb proof!
-
Sig P226st stainless. my personal favorite. Accurate and reliable. What a shooter! I might experiment with a .357sig barrel.
-
My 'cold dead hands' choice is a Sig in .40s&w with 13 rounds of 180 grain Speer Gold Dots. Either a P226st or P229 alloy will do nicely.
-
I believe the .40 is the best choice for law enforcement or personal protection.

 

[AStone]

OH HELL - they're all great -well - except 9mm - only pussies shoot 9mm

WAIT - damn - I shoot 9mm too...

Oh, good.

Now I don't have to hunt your arse down to set the record straight.

Nem

 

[bachman1961]

Not my typical method;

I don't regret this but I'm usually more disciplined in my methods of research and shopping. I have a SIG P-239 .40 and I'd have clocked more time and experience in shooting various guns and ammo to spec my best performance and gone from there. Like they all say, you gotta hit the real estate.. .. location , location, location..
I'm still pleased that I chose a reliable, compact gun for conceal carry and the .40 was considered for that extra bit of knockdown and livable recoil. It all worked out even though I short-changed the 'homework' that a $600 weapon purchase should warrant. (Mostly because the company I was employed with at the time offered a limited time payroll deduction to spread the cost out for us)

 

[shattered00]

Well no one has given me permission to post that link, therefore I shall take it upon myself to do it .

http: //www.blennus.com/video/kim_bodyguard.wmv

*Note: the website doesn't allow hotlinking, therefore I added a space in between the ":" and the first "/" right after http to prevent the website from creating a hotlink. Just delete the space and copy paste into the url and the video should open up in WMP.

If nothing else, the shot training part might pique the curiosity of many of you. I still don't think anyone will be able to identify the pistol, because it never gives a good view of it but oh well. It's an interesting video nonetheless.

Also, I still don't know what the Sig that I fired was. I recalled one more fact; it was double action for the first shot and single action thereafter. I know that it was the pistol mostly issued to the Special Agents before the Glock 22 started to be issued around 1998. It seemed to be much more accurate than the Glock 22 at 15 yards. I also believe it had a safety, but once again memory fails me.

On shooting my glock, I run around to get my heart beating in hopes that simulation of a "flight or fight" situation will be achieved. When I shoot, I exhale to where little air is in my lungs when I pull the trigger, and I breathe after about 6 shots. All four fingers of my left hand (excluding thumb of course ) grip the 3 fingers (excluding trigger finger and thumb) of my right. The "web" between my thumb and trigger finger is as high on the back of the grip as possible without having the slide demolish my hand. My left foot is slightly foward and I lean with my shoulders sort of hunched foward. My right arm(dominate) is almost straight, whereas my left arm is a little wider than an "L" shape. I try to shoot with both eyes open but it becomes quite difficult for me to regain my sighting after the initial shot, so I always revert to using my dominate right eye while closing my left.

Any corrections I need to make? I know that people say to use what works for them, but I need some kind of foundation to build on and want to make sure this is a start in the right direction.

 

[MachIVshooter]

On shooting my glock, I run around to get my heart beating in hopes that simulation of a "flight or fight" situation will be achieved. When I shoot, I exhale to where little air is in my lungs when I pull the trigger, and I breathe after about 6 shots. All four fingers of my left hand (excluding thumb of course ) grip the 3 fingers (excluding trigger finger and thumb) of my right. The "web" between my thumb and trigger finger is as high on the back of the grip as possible without having the slide demolish my hand. My left foot is slightly foward and I lean with my shoulders sort of hunched foward. My right arm(dominate) is almost straight, whereas my left arm is a little wider than an "L" shape. I try to shoot with both eyes open but it becomes quite difficult for me to regain my sighting after the initial shot, so I always revert to using my dominate right eye while closing my left.

Any corrections I need to make? I know that people say to use what works for them, but I need some kind of foundation to build on and want to make sure this is a start in the right direction.

I wouldn't say corrections, but a different off-hand grip that might help.
I personally found that I could better control larger caliber handguns during rapid fire with my left index finger on the front of the trigger gaurd (at least with squared gaurds, as found on the Glocks, Beretta's, etc.). When I shoot this way, I get less muzzle flip than when I simply wrap all four offhand fingers on the front of my shooting hand fingers. This is not such an issue with 9mm and the like, but with my Compact 10mm shooting full loads, accurate rapid fire takes a certain technique.

For those who are wondering how I could have a squared trigger gaurd on a Witness Compact, I welded material to the front of the trigger gaurd and then shaped and smoothed it to my liking, blued it, and added skateboard grip tape to the front. A caution to anyone who thinks this may be a good idea: I did this using my Snap-on 250 amp DC mig with .023" wire and 100% argon. You have to go big to go small where welding is concerned. Results likely would have been less than satisfactory using some cheap home depot wire feed welder. I would not have attempted this using a run-of-the-mill 110v Lincoln, Hobart, etc.