.41 colt new line revolver ammo

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I just found the listing for that new line, looks nice but $5500 is an insane price! Does the name engraved on the cylinder make it that high?

I just got a blue/cc one for fraction of that to go with my nickel one, condition is fairly on par with the one in that listing.
 
Looks very nice 41 Colt! Has a lot of finish left and the screws have good blue! I believe its a rimfire because of the crosses around the barrel address and no C on the frame, better check. These 1st models are not usually found in good shape like this. HC-Collections has a reloading kit for the rf. Dixie gunworks has some reloadable rf cases as well.

The blue gun is probably overpriced but it does have nice blue, 1st model production barrel, and an uncommon logo on left side of frame with a C an a rampant colt. That would be in the 3rd year of production and they probably used a barrel leftover from 1st model. Inscriptions are always a glimpse into the history of the gun which is also important. Auctions usually put the prices where they should be, but only a few sellers put a 'no reserver' auction up. I've seen this gun go to 1300 before but no sale.
 
So I just got one, a second model. It's extremely clean. I took apart to give it a good cleaning and try to fix an issue with binding in the timing. It looked like the bolt edge was hitting the case heads (I had spent casing loaded to dry fire it).

It still seams to bind so my question is what do the hands on these guins look like? Is there a "top" and "bottom" hand like a Colt SAA, two steps or levels? Mine has two but I have seen a sketch where it appears to just have one level.
 
I know what is going on, my hand has two levels and due to the bottom hand the top hand protudes too far into the frame and contacts the case heads causing binding. Without any cases loaded the action functions fine.

Here are pics:

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Gad Custom Cartridges sells hollowbased .41 Colt bullets for $10 per 10, or you can buy 100 heel-based bullets of 200 grs. for $7. Either is a bargain.
You'll have to trim cases back if you use heeled bullets.
I cast heeled bullets for the .32 Long Colt, so I'm familiar with the peculiarities of using heeled bullets.
The classic book, "US Cartridges & Their Handguns" by Charles A. Suydam shows the following measurements, taken from vintage cartridges, for the .41 Short Colt.

Bullet: 160(?) grain blunt-nose.
Powder: 15(?) grains of black powder. Grade not mentioned but I'd suggest you use FFFG.

Case rim diameter: .429 to .434 inch. Early cases were .457 to .470 inch.
Case head (forward of rim): .405 to .408 inch.
Case mouth, just below the crimp: .405 to .408 inch.
Bullet, maximum diameter ahead of case: .404 to .413 inch.
Case length (no bullet seated): .771 to .785 inch. Early cases ran .631 to .633 inch.
Overall cartridge length (after heeled bullet seated): 1.168 to 1.218 inch. Early ammo ran 1.101 to 1.133 inch.

As you can see, there is much disparity in some measurements. When these cartridges were made, there was no standardization; factories made what they figured worked. These figures will guide you, though.

As for bullet lubricant with black powder, use what the factories used. I found this recipe years ago in a 1943 American Rifleman magazine, listed as what the factories used years before with heeled bullets.
I used this recipe, but used very specific ingredients in the same proportions. The old article was more general about ingredients.
The following recipe was named after me years ago, as "Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant." It's the best black powder bullet, patch and wad lubricant I've found.
The Gatofeo No. 1 Bullet Lubricant recipe is:
1 part canning paraffin, such as that used to seal jars of preserves.
1 part mutton tallow (sold by Dixie Gun Works).
1/2 part beeswax
All amounts are by weight. I typically make a batch of 200/200/100 grams in a widemouth Mason jar, immsersed in a few inches of boiling water for a double-boiler effect. This is the safest way to melt greases and waxes.
Once all ingredients are melted, stir well with a stick or disposable chopstick. Allow to harden at room temperature.
Note: Do NOT substitute the above specific ingredients. Others and I have, and it results in an inferior product. You MUST use mutton tallow, canning paraffin and real beeswax to get this lubricant's benefits.

After you've loaded your cartridges with powder, and seated the heeled bullet down to the stepped-up bullet diameter, you can use a cheap wire stripper to gently crimp the case into the bullet.
A rat-tailed file will remove the sharpness from the edges of the wire stripper, so you don't cut or dent the brass case too much.

After crimping the case into the bullet, turn the entire cartridge upside down and hold the bullet in melted lubricant for a moment. Just the bullet part, stopping where the lubricant meets the brass case.
If the lubricant is hot enough, you'll see a ring of tension form around the bullet, because the bullet is colder than the lubricant.
After a moment, that ring of tension will disappear when the bullet reaches bullet lubricant temperature. That's the moment to remove the cartridge. This will leave an even coat of lubricant on the bullet.
Stand the cartridge upright on a sheet of wax paper and allow the lubricant to cool and cure overnight.
If you remove the cartridge before that ring of tension snaps away, you'll get a big gob of lubricant on the bullet. If that happens, just return the bullet to the hot lubricant and wait for the ring of tension to disappear.

Do NOT put ammo with outside lubricated bullets back into their paper boxes. Instead, place the cartridges into plastic boxes with separated dividers. I think a box made for .41 Magnum or .44 Special would work fine.
The plastic will keep dust and dirt off the lubricant and won't absorb the lubricant like paper.
It's helpful to have two boxes for each group of ammo. One box to carry it to the range, and the other to hold the fired cases. That way, you'll avoid cross-contamination of black powder fouling in the box that carries the clean, lubricated ammo.
When my plastic boxes get too gunky, turn them upside down in the dishwasher. All the old grease and black powder foulilng are cleaned out, along with the dishes.

Because of the variance in manufacturing measurements in old guns like yours, I'd suggest you make one trial cartridge to ensure it will chamber in all chambers. The bullet may be too big to fit your chambers. Making a dummy round will also be useful for display, and for setting up your reloading dies.
Of course, don't put a primer or powder in your dummy case.

You may very well find that heeled bullets are more accurate than hollowbased bullets, which rely upon the pressure of the gases to bump them up to diameter. Heeled bullets begin at larger diameter, so they'll usually fill the rifling grooves well.

I've learned a great deal firing my Marlin 1892 rifle with heeled bullets. I hope this information helps you.
 
I fixed the hand issue and also made a new mainspring after it broke.

I cast up two kinds of hollow base bullets both from a Rapine 386185. The first has a small hollow and with the bullet nose cut off in full length cases should produce bullets weighing about 140-145gr. The second I cast with a large hollow but shortened overall pin so the bullet is longer (the part that will go in the case). These should produce a bullet about 160-165gr which is closer to the original I believe. I'm gonna guess they will both hold around 15gr of blackpowder.

My current load for .41 Long Colt is 19gr crammed under a large hollow bullet weighing 184gr which I recently reduced to 17gr with only minor compression. I'd like to keep the pressure as low as possible due to the age and thin cylinder walls. I'll be loading in the next few days and should be at the range by next week and will report back.

Gatofeo, excellent post but I loathe heeled bullets after my experience with them. Only if these hollow base don't work well will I try them.
 
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This is what my rounds will look like, the one on the left, compared to a normal round on the right. I don't want to trim my brass so I will trim the bullets instead.

The next photo shows an empty full size case, a trimmed round and regular round in the cylinder.

The last photo shows the two bullets I am testing. The left is a typical Rapine 386185 with small hollow weighing about 202gr and next to it the trimmed version weighing about 145gr. Next is the large hollow but with a pin 0.103" shorter overall. Out of the mold these are around 220gr and the trimmed one about 162gr.

With the 145gr bullet a case holds 14.5gr without compression. I find this out by drilling out the flash hole of a case, seating a bullet and filling it with blackpowder from the flash hole. I will probably try 15.5gr.

The 162gr bullet sits on 12.8gr of powder and I will probably try 14gr. I think this one is closest to the original .41 Short Colt in weights although they were heeled bullets not hollow base. I also think they will be more accurate being longer.

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Went out today with them. I got a second in Nickel. :D

At 10yrds I barely hit anything, the two holes covered with tape are the only two that hit the paper at that distance. I shot a larger board and the shots were all going about 10" high and 3-4" right. I moved it in to 4-5yrds and these are five shot groups aiming at the center of the target. The notations at the tops of the targets are blackpowder weight, bullet weight & gun finish.

They are snappy little bastards, almost hard to hold onto being so small, but awesome. :cool:

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41 s da

I have found cartridges in 41 l.d.a.,41 s.d.a. and 41 e.s.d.a.,and 41 l.s.a. 41 s .s.a.all with different case dimensions,bullet diameters,and rim diameter's it seems to me to be almost as confusing as the English .450 cartridge,My revolver is marked colt 41 da and was made in 1897,long colt cartridges from the late 1920s slip by my ejectors, and i notice a round manufactured in 1897,had a rim diameter larger than more modern rounds,and specifically stated on the box (for colts 41 da) ,well i was taught to only use ammo matching the barrel markings exactly,and @ 5.00 per round collectors pricing i guess i wont be shooting this old fellow,unless i can get a lee loader kit in 41 .d.a. anyone have one to sell? done a search to no avail:confused:
 
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