.410 for SD?

[woof]

I have to admit I think of the .410 as either obsolete or a rabbit gun for little kids who can't take 20 gauge recoil. But I see .410s like the Saiga promoted for self defense. Just what can a .410 load do for SD? How many shot of sufficient size can be in a load?

 

[rugerfreak]

.410 slugs have similar ballistics as a .41 magnum----watch out for over penetration.

 

[woof]

My thinking was shot shells, and I'm thinking mainly of my wife (as user not target ). If I were going to use slugs my marlin .357 would serve as well.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Up to the range the shot leaves the cup (call it 8 yards or so) the shot will strike like a large caliber Glaser Safety Slug. Quite effective. After that, effect diminishes rapidly.

The 00 loads for the 410 may be a good idea.

 

[wdlsguy]

Winchester sells a 3" .410 load that launches 5 OOO buckshot at 1135 fps.

Federal sells a 2.75" 12 ga "tactical" load that launches 8 OOO buckshot at 1145 fps.

I wouldn't want to stand in front of either one.

 

[sm]

It is the person, not the equipment.
Software not Hardware.

There are those from kids to elderly that use .410 shotguns and .22 rim-fire for Serious Situations.

Homes have Security Measures taken and these Folks have mindset, quality lessons and continue quality lessons.

Some are Physically Limited, either temporarily, as in recovering from Surgeries and Doctor's Orders, for NO recoil.
Detached Retina's, Broken Necks, Backs, Shoulders, and the like.

Some are Physically Limited Permanently.
Osteo Arthritis and these are NOT even allowed to drive. The Real concern of a car door, or car trunk being shut too hard and breaking a back.
One lady, so bad with Osteo, stepped out bed and broke her foot.

Some were born without a lower arm, part of a hand missing, deformities that restrict some physical movements, and what they can do.

Stroke rendered some with permanent paralysis.

These folks simply have the mindset, training and attitude to stay safe.
Acceptance, Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.

I have always been in the camp, one should have those "tools" they can use if for some reason they get "down".

Software Not Hardware.

 

[jkingrph]

I have one of the Marlin leaver action .410's. It only takes 2.5" shells. Winchester loads 000 buck in these, I think 3 pellets. I have not tried patterning, but at ranges I would expect to use do not think it would be an issue and should be quite effective. It looks like a large bore rifle( think 45-70) especially in low light. Range would surely be limited, but at anything beyond its effective range, would it be defensive.

It's a hoot shooting skeet, showing up on the range with the lever action, especially when you miss and work the lever quickly to get off a second shot.

 

[Avenger29]

A .410 should be quite effective in the SD role. However, finding ammunition is going to be a different issue. It is hard enough to get a selection of 12 gauge ammunition other than birdshot around here, nevermind for 20 or .410...

 

[RyanM]

.410 slugs have similar ballistics as a .41 magnum----watch out for over penetration.

.41 magnum from what planet now? 1/5 ounce = 87.5 grains. You can get 9mm parabellum ammo that shoots a 90 grain bullet at about 1500 fps, same as a .410 slug, except from a pistol. From a carbine, I'd imagine the 9mm would be significantly more powerful.

I'd suggest the 5-pellet 000 rounds, but don't expect anything magical. Buckshot is highly overrated. Each shell would be the approximate equivalent of 5 shots of .380 ACP FMJ. Which would be quite good, but nothing fantastic. Especially considering that people have been shot 5 and more times with service caliber JHPs without being especially perturbed.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=X413RS5&gauge=410



http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=X41RS5&gauge=410


http://www.winchester.com/products/...aspx?symbol=S41PTHP&cart=NDEgUmVtIE1hZ251bQ==


http://www.winchester.com/products/...px?symbol=X41MSTHP2&cart=NDEgUmVtIE1hZ251bQ==


Winchester/Olin Planet

 

[sm]

Slugs.

Folks I assist with use slugs in .410 for serious uses.

I /we have spent some time with factory loadings and reloaded "buckshot".
I/we experiences and observations are from Testing, Evaluations and Performance testing on Pattern boards...these do not work well at all.

.410s are not effective in patterns period. L-o-n-g shot strings with payload to bore diameters for starters.
Even with a load of # 9 shot (all them pellets) Skeet Targets and Skeet Scores reflect how poor these pattern.

I/we don't and never did buy into Marketing Hype and all.
We tested and evaluated to have something to show and prove our viewpoint "Stick with what works".
Oh we had fun doing all this "buckshot" , just something I/we did.

Slugs are used I'd say over 90% of the time by these folks I am speaking of that have a legit need to use a .410.

#6 shot is the other loading followed by # 7 1/2 shot and these are mostly
2 1/2" shells.

Why? Payload to bore and shot deformation. Pattern density, and #6 shot penetrates better.
Unique thing about #6 shot, it tends to pattern best out of most guns, not matter the gauge "best", due to less deformation.

Folks can reload these 2 1/2" shells and therefore have more quality time in quality practice.

Some will get the .410 round ball slugs reloading kits and reload slugs for property use and all too.

We just find the factory slug a particular guns likes, and get more of the same, and preferably the same lot number.


Aside: Many know this still.

A .410 and 12 gauge shotgun, will throw the same pattern size onto a pattern board.
Using the same size shot, say a target load of #9.

Difference is : Pellet density.
That is why one can "miss with all them pellets" and gun fit, correct basics are that important.
Still a Skeet Shooter, will have the lowest scores, and the .410 is the hardest gauge to shoot well.
You can literally see holes in the pattern.
Not all them pellets arrive at the same time.


Slugs are MY preferred Serious Shotgun load, in 12, 20, 28 and .410.
Full house Slugs, I do NOT do reduced recoil slugs or buckshot.

 

[gp911]

I've shot a _lot_ of 000 buck 5 pellet buckshot through .410s and it should do a good job of stopping a threat. 4 less pellets than 12 gauge 00 buck, but they still would make me think twice about attacking further... The patterns get weird at longer ranges, but across-the-room (even a big room) ranges pattern well enough for a nasty outcome.

Now the 15-18 pellet 10 gauge, there's a stopper...

Seriously though, I'd use the .410 if needed.

gp911