.410 handgun rounds?

[rodger1950]

Not much luck with any bird shot out of a rifled barrel, but saw a test on you tube and the federal brand 000 buck seemed to do the best at 12 feet.

 

[NOLAEMT]

I don't think anyone is saying that a Judge will not deliver a lethal payload.

The argument is that for the size, weight, and cost of a judge, you could have a much more effective weapon in 38special, 9mm, 45acp, etc. Why would you handicap yourself with a 5 shot 410 pistol when obviously better choices are available?

 

[bassdogs]

There are actually people out there who are not "crack" shots, specifically in a quick point and shoot situation. Put a 38 snub, 9mm or such in their purse and they are as likely to shoot themself as hit a bad guy running at them from 2 cars over in the parking garage. Put a judge in that same hand, and 2 rounds of 410 buck [or the PDX if you prefer] and you have a much higher chance for a favorable result.

There are just as many "did not perform" stories for the other pop guns mentioned as there may be for the Judge. I put one in my wife's car, because she is not a frequent shooter and makes numerous solo drives back to see grandkids or shop 50 miles from home. A revolver is safer than an auto so forget the 9's, 40's or 45's. A 38 snubby, please???? With a few practice sessions her public defender is her private defender.

Thank you but believe it or not, just as you are allowed an opinion, so am I.

 

[Onmilo]

I never said a Judge or even a .45/.410 derringer isn't lethal.
I am saying the guns are close range propositions that seem to require extremely expensive and somewhat hard to obtain at times ammunition in order to be considered "effective".

Back to the original point of this thread,'
There is no valid reason to consider using this proprietary and expensive ammunition in a .410 long gun.
The stuff will offer no advantages, cost more per shell, limit the magazine capacity due to the longer overall length of the shells and possibly be unsafe due to that longer shell length in a potentially shorter than optimum chamber.

 

[bassdogs]

Now you sound like a politician. What you did say is that even the expensive ammo won't make a Judge what its not, EFFECTIVE. Call me crazy but saying that a gun isn't effective, is pretty much implying that it isn't [well] lethal. Repeating myself, you don't have to shoot the special $$ shells, #3 buck will work quite well for the initial couple of rounds. After that a 45 HC will punch the ticket if that is still necessary.

As for the PDX rounds, I load 2 of them before the 45's. Probably won't shoot 20 of them in a year. My retirement will not be threatened by the few extra $$'s. I do however not see any purpose in shooting the PDX in a long gun.

I didn't bring up the argument about the Judge, but have simply been defending it against what I believe is an untrue slur that is all to often repeated by some. I say, that if it is lethal at the appropriate range and it reliably goes bang when I pull the trigger, I also call it effective.

 

[Strykervet]

There are actually people out there who are not "crack" shots, specifically in a quick point and shoot situation. Put a 38 snub, 9mm or such in their purse and they are as likely to shoot themself as hit a bad guy running at them from 2 cars over in the parking garage. Put a judge in that same hand, and 2 rounds of 410 buck [or the PDX if you prefer] and you have a much higher chance for a favorable result.

There are just as many "did not perform" stories for the other pop guns mentioned as there may be for the Judge. I put one in my wife's car, because she is not a frequent shooter and makes numerous solo drives back to see grandkids or shop 50 miles from home. A revolver is safer than an auto so forget the 9's, 40's or 45's. A 38 snubby, please???? With a few practice sessions her public defender is her private defender.

Thank you but believe it or not, just as you are allowed an opinion, so am I.

You saw the commercial. Did the bad guys have watermelons for heads? The lady looks ridiculous pulling that monster out of her purse too. If you have a wife, give her a nice new red brick and tell her to carry it around and see how she looks at you, because that is exactly how she will look at it. My wife thinks a G17 is too big...

You don't need to be a crack shot, but you need to practice with what you carry. If you don't do that, maybe carrying isn't for you. My wife, she is the one they market this too by your arguement. But she has a 649 .357 and has no problem putting them all in a dinner plate DA and point shooting at close range. BTW, she says revolvers a good idea in general for the average woman not into shooting but interested in carrying. Still got to practice some though. The Crimson Trace grips help too she says, and she was taught point shooting (not much to teach --it is natrually wired into us, hand/eye coordination) long before we got them.

If the bad guy is anything over seven yards, AND the person isn't a crack shot or decent shot, where are those pellets going? Tell me that. A scatter gun is BAD idea in public, period, but only due to a high chance for fliers, otherwise they'd be ideal. Slugs would be okay, but then why not just get a .45LC? Better accuracy and smaller size to boot.

As for the OP, I would imagine that anything with ".410" on the head stamp with no kind of special warning would be okay to use in a long gun. I mean, if they made a special Judge only load, it would need to be marked that way for safety's sake. It would be a huge liability to make a load that is identical and can be chambered in a weapon it wasn't intended to be. On the other hand, I'd use it in a modern weapon in good condition just like anything else.

This is purely speculative though, based on everything else shooting I know about, I don't own a Judge or a .410. They make a nice toy I guess, but to think they are great defense tools that are the newest thing is absurd. They came out a decade or two ago and flopped massively. They didn't have big marketing like Smith and Taurus can manage though, they had no way to tell people what to do with it, what it is used for.

You just had to look at it, fondle it, whatever, and figure it out for yourself. Same as you do with any other weapon --and it failed that test. It took strong and successful marketing campaigns to undo this. But to think they'd make special .410's and not change the chambering itself would be a very bad idea indeed.

 

[bassdogs]

Sorry Dude! Mine is a public defender and is not all that big or heavy. Don't like them don't buy them. To the moderators I wonder where you are in some of these comments. I know that it is not accepted to talk about putting someone in the line of fire with a weapon that they are so adamant that it isn't Effective so I won't repeat it here. I will say that my experience with actually firing the weapon in question is that it is both effective and reliable for the purpose that it was purchased for. Anyone laughing when they are viewing the business end of a Judge should do so at their own peril.

 

[Dave McCracken]

There's utility in a 5 shot, 45LC revolver. Had I a Judge, I'd use 45LC loads and practice with it until I could ace a qualifier, That's what I do with my carry guns now and what I recommend.

The idea of a person carrying ANY gun they are not reasonably proficient with bothers the $%^&* out of me.

A 410 revolver's, IMO, the answer to a question no one needs asked.....

 

[bassdogs]

Dave -=- I guess what bothers me with your comment is what you consider "reasonably competent". Not everyone has the time or inclination to shoot 100's of rounds on a regular basis, which is what is necessary to meet the definition of what I call a " crack shot". I agree that no one should handle or carry a firearm, any firearm, that they are not familiar with and knowledgeable about how to handle safely. My wife is well within that definition. She does not shoot enough to be pin point accurate in a quick draw and shoot situation. At a range she can consistently hit a center mass target at 7 - 10 yards. I have spent substantial time schooling her on the ins and outs of self defense and feel comfortable she can recognize a threat situation and in most cases remove herself from that threat. She does however make numerous trips on rural highways and interstates in her travels to visit grandkids etc. The Judge is a "car" gun I got her so that she has a means of self defense if she finds it necessary to do so.

What some on here seem not to want to accept is that the right to self defense does not only extend to the "shooting" community. Access to a firearm comes with it a responsibility to know how and when to use it. It does not require that someone be able to shoot perfect 10's. The shooting phase of my state's CC certification requires 14 hits out of 20 at 7 yards on a man sized target.

Last comment about the Judge and specifically 410 rounds [special or otherwise]. The intent of loading the first 2 rounds with 410 is to increase the odds of an effective hit that is likely to stop the threat. At a minimum, it will buy important time to take careful aim with the 45LC that come in 3 thru 5. In my opinion, the judge was the perfect weapon to accomplish that in the case of my wife. PS: My CC is a 40cal and I am quite competent by any definition. That doesn't mean I am a threat to make a competetive shooting team.

 

[AABEN]

The Judge takes 2 1/2 in noy 3in.

 

[Dave McCracken]

"the time or inclination to shoot 100s of rounds on a regular basis....

I guess having someone who has maybe 1 hour of driving time behind them in the car next to you on the highway doing the same speed,say 75 MPH, as everyone else is OK, then.....

Yes, reasonable proficiency is a good thing, whether in driving or shooting. Lack of same means people getting hurt.

However, let's establish some criteria before throwing verbal rocks...

Here, in this context, I'd want someone who carries or just "Has a gun for defense" to be able to hit a volleyball sized target with their gun of choice at "Across the room" distances time after time in a fairly short time frame. That correlates to your example.

My wife is no big gun fan, but she can do that with her Trooper.

In her 70s, my late Grandmother could also, with her father's ancient IJ 32. Being even more of a miser than I, she declined my offer of a Model 10 and better ammo.

45LC is a fine stopper, even loaded down to Schofield ballistics. But, in a light snubbie, it may be hard for many folks to control. Basing this on experience with 45 ACP revolvers.

I doubt the boutique 410 rounds are much easier to handle.

Had I some assurance that 3 00 balls would group inside "Minute Of Perp", I might be less dismissive of the Judge and its ilk.

But I do not.

 

[baylorattorney]

Winchester pdx 3inch ammo at 15 yards fired from a snake charmer.. I like the pattern..


Waste not want not.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

ANGRY YELLING!!!!! Man there are a lot of defensive people in here!

Yes, reasonable proficiency is a good thing, whether in driving or shooting. Lack of same means people getting hurt.

No matter what a person carries....... practice!

 

[bassdogs]

Don't think we are that far off when it comes to competence with a firearm. Your definition or mine, I am comfortable in the ability of my wife to handle a revolver. As to your concern over the pattern of 3 00, my experience is about 6 inches at 7 yards. Easily within the area that she could shoot with a volley of 38's or 9's. Actual SD situations document that under stress, many shots are typically off target. The 410 pattern is in my mind the best way for a "non crack shot" to hit a bad guy with a quick shot. Why are you so concerned about "flyers" from buck and fail to mention where the stray rounds hit from any other firearm.

There is a far cry from an hours driving and a person with good [albeit] limited training and actual shooting experience. There is also a difference from access for defensive purposes and going into combat with someone. Regular practice at a range is always recommended as does time behind the wheel. BUT that person with limited driving experience is out there among us with a license to drive. I did not give my wife keys to the car without knowing that she was competent to drive it. The same is true when I placed the Judge in her car.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Walking away quietly....

 

[plumberroy]

back to the original question Anytime I have a 410 shotgun in my hands there are 3-4 federal handgun 000buck in my watch pocket. they make a wicked varmit load out of a shotgun barrel they ride
Untill I moved a year ago I had chickens I defended it from varmitswith one of the rossi 410's with a rifle shell stock sleeve on it was stocked with the federal buckshot and brenneke slugs
Roy