410 metallic case reloading

[scary1946]

I have been checking posts on this site for some time now and have learned a lot from what has been written. I want to say that the expertise here on this web site is astounding. I am sure that someone can help me with identification of some reloading dies and brass shotshells I purchased recently. I purchased a die set that I thought was for 410 plastic shotshells that could be used on my rock chucker press. After closer inspection I don't believe they are for plastic shotshells but are for making brass 410s for the 444 Marlin. In addition I was given a few boxes labeled "44 shotshells" that were very very similiar to 444 marlin cases in size but are 2.18" long. As such they are a little shorter than my 444 Marlin cases. I believe the shot shells will fit my 444 but I haven't tried them yet. I disassembled one of the loads and found that they contain a 44 caliber gas check on top held in place with a roll crimp. They contain 248 grains of 7 1/2 shot in a 410 plastic wad. The powder is 7.6 grains of what looks to be Herco. The cases vary in that some are 303 British, some 30 USA, some 30-40 Krag, and some just have Western 29. I believe they have been fire formed for the 444 chamber.Since this was an estate sale the seller had no knowledge of any of the loading info, or what they would fit, etc. I am always interested in this sort of thing but this one has me buffaloed. The dies are labeled 410 BEST. There is a sizer and seat die. In addition there is a die labeled 450 W. for depriming. These three are RCBS. There is an additional die unlabeled but appears to be a trim to length die. There is also an RCBS shell holder labeled 410. So far I cannot find anything that fits this shellholder. Can anyone shed light on the 410 BEST I have described here. I appologize for such a long posting but I wanted to give all the info in hopes that it would aid in solving these mystery dies/loads.
Thanks to one and all for all your help.

 

[longspurr]

1946
Not a direct answer but some info. According to the Handloaders manual to cartridge conversion, the 303 & 30-40 Krag cases should be a bit small for the 444 chamber.
The 444 head diameter is listed as .470 and the rim .514

303's are .451 and the rim .540, 30-40's are similar.

Providing the pressure is shotgun pressure & not full factory 444 pressure these cases should work without rupturing.
I think now days with 444 cases being reasonably available they should be used with similar components.

to understand the die set, this might be a great time to do a "chamber cast" of the resizing die.

I don't have a 410 shell handy so I don't know its head / rim dimentions.

Estate sales are Great fun and have some interesting surprises. I bought a dining flatware set that looked golden at a estate. Turns out the knives/forkes/spoons are made of Bronze from Thailand.

 

[loadedround]

First I have heard of those dies like this in all my years of reloading. Since you mentioned that some dies are marked RCBS, why not email them or give them a call since they are the experts in this field. Email address is www.rcbs.com and their number is 1-800-533-5000. I have to warn you, it's a long wait to reach their Customer Service people; very shameful for the reputation of this fine company.

 

[rcmodel]

these cases should work without rupturing.

Western 29 might very well indicate they were 30-40 cases, made in 1929.

Reformed brass that old would be very questionable I betcha. Especially since they probably had mecuric primers the first time they were fired.

rc

 

[scary1946]

Thanks to those who have given me some info on the 410 metallic cartridge reloading questions I raised. I wonder if anyone has any info on a Herco powder load for the 410 and 1/2 oz of shot? I have a large cannister of that powder which I need to start using. My cannister is Hercules but I believe it is now Alliant? Do you think it is ok to use the data for either powder since they are both Herco? I do think the dies and loads are quite old and it makes sense to now use 444 dies and 444 cases for the shotshell loads. I think I read somewhere to make an over the shot card from an old wax carton, and seal it with white glue. Because that is just the way I am, I probably will go ahead and shoot up the loads I have rather than discard them. I have approximately 100 rounds. I plan to call RCBS to see if they can shed any light on the old 410 BEST dies. Thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

I don't know what to tell you.
Herco was never a .410 powder. More for heavy shot charges in the bigger guages.

I wouldn't have a clue what to use in a .410.
Not to mention, in reformed brass cases with paper wads.

I might investigate the CCI/Speer .44 Special Shot Capsule & load data though.

They should work fine in your .444 and would probably give better patterns with no leading.

The closest powder to Herco they list is Unique.
6.7 grains to be exact.

rc

 

[scary1946]

rc
thanks for the reply. I will do some more checking on type of powder to use with the 410, with both brass and plastic cases. I have a few pounds of Herco and I really need to use it up on something.BTW I did shoot some of the old loads I got from the estate sale with the dies. They worked good in my 444. The pattern at 10 yds was very good and in fact out to 20 yards it was decent. Beyond that it was really sparse. There was no recoil and very low noise. I compared the powder to blue dot and Herco. It is a dead ringer for Herco. It is close to blue dot but the granuals of powder are smaller with blue dot. I am reasonably sure it is Herco. The load I disassembled weighed 7.6 grains. It is a light load so I knew I would be ok with trying it in my Marlin. I'm having fun with it and I guess that is what its all about. I plan to try a reload or two in 444 cases. I am also going to give RCBS a call to see what they can tell me. Thanks to all.

 

[12Bravo20]

I use either Winchester 296 or Hodgdon H110 for reloading .410 shells. I haven't tried reloading any brass shells, just standard plastic ones. Those are pretty much the standard powders for reloading .410, there are other powders that one can use also.