416 Rem recoil opinions?

[451 Detonics]

I currently shoot 3 rifles that would meet the requirements for dangerous game just about anywhere in the world. The lightest is a Tikka 412 double rifle in 9.3X74R, this rifle is a joy to shoot, recoil is very mild even when shooting near max loads of a 286 Nosler at 2400fps.
Next is a Browning BAR Safari that started out as a .338. Thanks to a talented gunsmith it is now chambered for the 375/338 wildcat (.375 Taylor). It will launch a 350 Woodleigh at 2400 fps and a 300 grain at 2600. Gives me 4 shots as fast as I can get on target with the gas system eating a good bit of the recoil.
Last of my current DG rifles started life as a Browning 71 in .348 Winchester and was rebuilt by McGowen into a 450 Alaskan. This rifle will equal the .458 Winchester in terms of bullet weight ans velocity in a handy 5 shot lever action. It is very versatile and I load everything from light Trail Boss loads up to heavies. It is also the only rifle I have taken a head of dangerous game with. Some years ago I hunted wild range bulls in the cane breaks down along the Rio Grande...big, very mean bulls at very close range. Probably the closest I will ever come to hunting a Cape in Africa.
I have also owned several 375 H&Hs in the past and it is still a favorite cartridge of mine. For what the OP described as the purpose of his proposed rifle the .375 H&H would be my first recommendation.

The advise given above is good and I would add that if intend to shoot any of the medium or big bores you really should lean to reload. The ammo is expensive and by reloading you will afford yourself the opportunity to shoot a lot more for the same amount of money. You can also start with lighter loads and work up to full power, the learning curve is much gentler that way.

 

[Maverick223]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Sabatti is having real world issues. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. They have huge QC issues, customer service issues and accuracy issues that make them a total no go. My advice is do not waste your money on a Sabatti.

I too was swayed by their price, until Greg set me straight. He knows far more than I, but it seems that Chapuis is the best deal on doubles at the present time.

Standing weight forward

That is key IMO. It sounds counter-intuitive, but lean into the rifle, with it tight on your shoulder and a firm grasp the forearm, and just roll with the punch. Oh and never shoot the big bores from the bench...first of all there is no reason to (as benches are hard to come by in the bush now-days), secondly it makes recoil brutal. Instead try shooting sticks for a good, steady aim.

 

[mr.trooper]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the Sabatti is having real world issues. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. They have huge QC issues, customer service issues and accuracy issues that make them a total no go. My advice is do not waste your money on a Sabatti.

No harm done! Many new companies have such problems with their doubles, be they shotgun or rifle. It will be quite some time before I will be a serious buyer. Maybe they will have the kinks worked out by then but if not, I'll be 1/2 way to a Merkel anyway.

A big bore magazine gun is my first priority, and I should have that M70 Safari by September.

Thanks again all for your help.

 

[H&Hhunter]

My advice is save your money and buy a Heym. It'll hurt to part with all that money but you won't regret your choice in the long run. Second choice would be the Chapuis.


Before you go blowing 5k on a Sabatti and wind up with a broken heart. Take the time to read all through these reports. Especially the part where the Sabatti factory is carving out rifling from the end of the barrels to TRY and get them to regulate.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/145

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/7181032251

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/760101804/m/8091075351

 

[mr.trooper]

Interesting that Chapuis is your second choice. Mind if I ask why?

 

[Maverick223]

Interesting that Chapuis is your second choice. Mind if I ask why?

I'm curious too. Isn't a Heym a great deal more costly than a Chapuis?

 

[Hizzie]

mr. trooper-

So what did you get?

 

[mr.trooper]

Nothing yet. In about a month I'll have saved the money for an entry level big bore magazine rifle.

I would like a CRF rifle, which limits me to the entry level guns from Winchester, Ruger, or CZ in my price range.

I'm leaning towards the 416Rem because, of the true big bores, quality components are cheaper than most others, so reloading would be much more economical.

That rules out the Ruger and CZ because they are not offered in that chambering.

Only a 357H&H (a middle bore) would be cheaper to operate, and only If I resorted to using Remington brass. With the 416Rem I could load all new Hornady components for about $2 per round on the first loading, of which about $1 would be the brass - dropping the cost of each consecutive reload to $1 per round.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Interesting that Chapuis is your second choice. Mind if I ask why?

I recommend the Heym over the Chapuis for one very simple reason and that is the safety on the Heym is a sear intercepting safety and it comes standard on all Heyms. Making it one of the safest double rifles on the planet.

The Heym is the best value for the money coming standard with sear intercepting safety, articulated front trigger, selectable ejectors/extractors and one of the most bomb proof three hook actions available. To get all that in a custom gun you'd spend WAY more than what you get standard in the Heym.

For a gun in the 10K range the Chapuis is far and away the best built and one of the best values out there but it is missing all of the features I mentioned on the Heym.

I can not stand Merkel's. They have some issues and I just don't like the way they come up and point.

I have owned two Searcy rifles both have been outstanding in the accuracy department. But I find that the Searcy product can be hit or miss especially with the early ones. There are some real dogs out there that carry the Searcy name. The one I've got right now is a Searcy PH model and is a very nice reliable accurate double. The PH isn't made anymore. He has the Field grade which is a cheapened version of the PH with no ejectors for around 10K and then it jumps up to the classic which is comparable in price to the Heym. So at 10K you'd be better served with a Chapuis and at 20K you'd be better served with a Heym IMO. If He still made the PH I'd have a different opinion.

The Kreighoff and the Blaser S-2 are of the same category to me. They are the Glocks of the double rifle world. They operate and function just fine they are perfectly safe to carry. But neither has ejectors which is a deal killer for me, they both have a very stiff cocking mechanism for a safety which I find slow and cumbersome to operate and the S-2 in particular is just way to funky techno Teutonic looking in design for my tastes.

If I was seriously looking at a bomb proof and beautiful modern custom double right now I'd give Baily Bradshaw a call and go look at his double falling block action rifles. they are very interesting and look to be about as strong and solid a double rifle as one could have. And the price is stupid cheap for what you get at 8.5K.

The neatest concept for a modern double rifle IMO. Check it out.

http://www.bradshawgunandrifle.com/Farquharson_Double_Rifle_1B.php

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks for the additional information, H&H! Those Heyms are mighty nice, but a bit over my (anticipated) budget. Personally I would prefer a double without ejectors, but that is of minor concern.

I think the double Farquharson that Bradshaw is building is amazing (and must be strong to boot). I really like the falling block rifles (have one, plan to buy another), but honestly I think I would rather stay with the traditional break SxS.

 

[mr.trooper]

If I was seriously looking at a bomb proof and beautiful modern custom double right now I'd give Baily Bradshaw a call and go look at his double falling block action rifles. they are very interesting and look to be about as strong and solid a double rifle as one could have. And the price is stupid cheap for what you get at 8.5K.

The neatest concept for a modern double rifle IMO. Check it out.

Again you prove to be an indispensable fountain of knowledge.

I had seen pictures of that double Farquharson before, but never a price. It's nice to see it under $10K - I just assumed it was far more. I have always enjoyed shooting falling block rifles, and I have a bit of experience with them. Looks like a fine long-term goal to set. That way I will have plenty of time to decide on 470NE or 450/400

Thanks again all. I will revive this thread to let you all know how it goes with the upcoming magazine rifle.

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks again all. I will revive this thread to let you all know how it goes with the upcoming magazine rifle.

Please do.

One final thought for you to contemplate: If you are serious about adding a double, and believe that purchase to come before a large, dangerous game hunt (rather than just plains game, or dangerous NA game like Kodiak/Polar), you might want to consider the .375H&H in the bolt rifle. It is an outstanding cartridge, and makes for a fine (practical even) large bore repeater for large game in NA, African plains game, and even some of the smaller species of large, DG in Africa. Additionally, you will find the trajectory a mite bit better than most of the .40cal+ rifles (though the .416s do fair in this regard), on par with the .30-06Spd. Oh, and recoil is a bit less too, so your shoulder can withstand more than your wallet.

 

[Mr. T]

I just recently fired a .458 Lott and I found it to be not much more noticably different than shooting a 12 gauge. It was a good accurate gun. I shot it out of a Ruger No.1.

 

[notasfancy]

I agree with H&H hunter. Good advice to stay away from the Sabatti. A friend of mine had nothing but problems.

 

[DM~]

Although i have a few DR's, when i wanted the best quality DR for the least $ spent, i went with a Chapuis chambered in 9.3x74R,



They really are a good quality double, that can stand a lot of shooting, and you will still have something that you can hand down to one of your kids some day.

I really like mine.

DM

 

[45crittergitter]

I've used a .416 Rem in a fairly lightweight Model 700 (about 9#) a fair amount, and hunt deer with it, including firing from a tree stand. You have to be careful it doesn't kick you out of the tree. As another poster said, although the recoil can be compared to a stiff 12 ga., there is quite a difference in recoil velocity. The .416 kicks all at once, while shotguns are much slower coming back, in my experience. If you can borrow something in the same class, like a .458, that will give you a good idea. It's definitely more than the .375. A friend borrowed mine and he and another guy fired it the same day as a .378 Wby. and a .458 and both thought the .416 kicked a bit more. I can shoot it pretty well for a few rounds. I never fire more than 2, 3-shot groups for accuracy from the bench in one day, because after that the groups invariably expand If you scope it you absolutely want plenty of eye relief - at least 3.5". I've never subscribed to the notion that body size is relevant to recoil tolerance, but FWIW I'm a small guy, about 5-8 and 140.