416 uppers? last chance?

[J_RIVERA]

Hey guys

I just got a call - apparently the hk 416 upper i had on order is finally getting shipped...pretty excited

rumor has it that the next generation of uppers HK is going to be made to not fit any other lower than HK, so my concern is, should I try to get 2 uppers while I still can? I read that after the next couple of months, I won't be able to get 416 parts anymore. the guy i talked to earlier at knesek guns said they would probably have an extra in the shipment if I wanted to add it to my order

what do you think?

 

[longdayjake]

If HK is so full of their own crap that they won't make an ar that works with other's parts then why would you want to buy their stuff. If this is true its one more reason for us all to hate HK.

 

[J_RIVERA]

it's really pretty questionable - I agree - I still like the design though...

 

[jerkface11]

How is their design different from any other piston AR?

 

[Darthbauer]

I'd say forget HK and go with LWRC if you want piston uppers.

LWRC doesn't think you suck and hate you.

 

[chrissmallwood]

I believe the reasoning for producing an upper and lower that are not compatible with standard AR receivers has to do with some German law that says they cannot produce a rifle for export if they also produce a copy of that rifle for military use. They had to change it to be able to sell the rifle I believe. There is a thread on Arfcom that explains it better, if somebody is a member there maybe they can search for it and link to it.

 

[J_RIVERA]

that makes alot more sense then - i just wish they had a better workaround than changing the sizing :\

most piston styles have a bolt face that i've noticed causing some wear, the LWRC and HK doesnt appear to have this issue...I think the HK is more for the collectors factor for me

 

[psyopspec]

IF these things are about to become more valuable than a toilet seat made out of solid gold, why are the nice salesmen letting you in on the information and extending the base price to you, instead of doubling up the price and waiting for them to sell as supply dwindles? (No answer needed, just asking rhetorically).

Salesmen sell. Just sayin.

 

[Avenger29]

Guys, calm down. I heard this week that HK is going back to a standard pin location for their upper.

 

[Mags]

I think you should cancel your order and buy from a company that has better aftermarket parts availability and a company that doesn't hate you. POF comes to mind as well as LWRC.

 

[Quiet]

The H&K HK416 is AR compatible.
The H&K HK416 is only avilable for law enforcement/government/military.

The H&K MR556 and MR223 are not AR compatible. The upper and lower recievers have different pin locations.
The H&K MR556 and MR223 are the civilian legal versions of the HK416. The H&K MR223 is available in the EU and the MR556 will be available (not yet released) in the USA.

 

[Maverick223]

So is it possible for us civies in the US to get a HK 416 upper? If that is the case, I might just have to pick one up.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

If HK is so full of their own crap that they won't make an ar that works with other's parts then why would you want to buy their stuff. If this is true its one more reason for us all to hate HK.

longdayjake, I dunno man -- maybe you don't fully understand what the 416 is capable of - see sig line.

 

[Quiet]

So is it possible for us civies in the US to get a HK 416 upper? If that is the case, I might just have to pick one up.

You can get a HK416 upper, if you are willing to spend around $4000 for NIB or around $3000 for used.

 

[Maverick223]

You can get a HK416 upper, if you are willing to spend around $4000 for NIB or around $3000 for used.

Yeah...um, changed my mind, don't want one at all. They can keep mister 556 too.

 

[nwilliams]

I'm not impressed with the 416 at all and when I hear what they sell for (especially just the upper) all I want to do is laugh. I want to know what makes HK think the 416 is so special that it deserves the kind of price tag the put on it.

I'd sooner have a complete Ruger SR-556 any day. At least you're getting an American made piston AR with Ruger's high level of customer service should anything go wrong with it.

 

[HKrazy]

I always get flamed every time I say this but here goes again. H&K put more engineering into their piston design than just about any other company out there.

It is impossible to explain this concept to most people because it is not immediately visible to the untrained eye. However look at a SL8/G36/416 piston closely some time and you can see that a lot of thought went into designing the exhaust port, the nipple tip and the angle of the piston face to give just the right impulse for ideal cycling.

To put it more bluntly, there are large numbers of militaries, special forces and police around the world using H&K piston driven weapons. When was the last time you saw a military, special forces or major police SWAT team with POF or Ruger weapons? Almost never. Ever think there might be a reason?

So, H&K are a pain in the butt to deal with. Get over it.

A GM salesman is a lot friendlier than a Ferrari Salesman, but I know who has the better product.

 

[nwilliams]

When was the last time you saw a military, special forces or major police SWAT team with POF or Ruger weapons? Almost never. Ever think there might be a reason?

Military and police contracts?

Ruger tends to target the civilian market, HK almost exclussivly targets the military and police market.

Of course the HK 416 is going to be a higher quality rifle than the sr556 but for the average shooter like me having the best isn't always an option or a necessity. If I were in the military or police and were being issued a weapon at no cost to me then that would be a different story.

 

[HKrazy]

Of course the HK 416 is going to be a higher quality rifle than the sr556 but for the average shooter like me having the best isn't always an option or a necessity. If I were in the military or police and were being issued a weapon at no cost to me then that would be a different story.

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. Back to the car analogy a Chevy will do a fine job of getting you back and forth to work, picking up the kids and going to the grocery store. You certainly don't need a Lambo, Ferrari or Bentley to get the job done.

On the other hand, you don't seem to get a lot of people referring to Lambos, Ferraris and Bentleys as overpriced junk or claiming that their Chevy is just as good a car as any of those, the way people seem to think H&K is some kind of rip off.

 

[Maverick223]

H&K put more engineering into their piston design than just about any other company out there.

I will agree with that...but does that make it worth four fold what a comparable high-end upper runs?...not to me.

On the other hand, you don't seem to get a lot of people referring to Lambos, Ferraris and Bentleys as overpriced junk or claiming that their Chevy is just as good a car as any of those, the way people seem to think H&K is some kind of rip off.

I don't hear people complain about Blaser, Holland & Holland, or Perazzi and they can be significantly more expensive...I do hear quite a bit about H&K. Perhaps that is because it is a rip-off?

 

[HKrazy]

I will agree with that...but does that make it worth four fold what a comparable high-end upper runs?...not to me.

I agree, it is a personal decision. Is a Ferrari 430 worth three times the price of a Corvette ZR-1? Some people buy the Ferrari, some the Corvette. Neither is wrong and the Ferrari is not a rip off.

I don't hear people complain about Blaser, Holland & Holland, or Perazzi and they can be significantly more expensive...I do hear quite a bit about H&K. Perhaps that is because it is a rip-off?

Apples to oranges, none of those companies make tactical weapons like we are discussing.

I hate to overdo the automotive analogies but maybe H&K are more like Mercedes/BMW. They are regarded as well built and well engineered cars, far better than average, but every now and then they have a turkey or some issues. The H&K UMP machines guns suck and the P30 trigger is a little strange, but neither Mercedes, BMW or H&K are a rip off.

 

[Maverick223]

Apples to oranges, none of those companies make tactical weapons like we are discussing.

...and the Corvette isn't a race car, the Ferrari is (or can be)...is that any different?

Don't get me wrong, I like H&K, particularly their line of pistols (my USP .45 has been flawless for a few thousand rounds), but $4k for an upper is a bit ridiculous.

 

[jonc]

"but $4k for an upper"

Seriously? wow

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Hey HKrazy, can you explain why HK needs to resort to fraud to sell their products as I alluded to in my post above, and re-iterate here in my sig line? Was looking for an HK defender to explain that one to me.

A GM salesman is a lot friendlier than a Ferrari Salesman

What evidence do you have of that allegation? If I were a Ferrari salesman, I'd be a LOT friendlier to the rich guys that come in who can actually afford that product, since sales are so few and far between. Yet HK takes the opposite approach.

but neither Mercedes, BMW or H&K are a rip off.

Disagree with that. Mercedes & BMW are fine autos, worth every penny. The 416 is the very definition of rip-off. Not even a close comparison.

 

[HKrazy]

Hey HKrazy, can you explain why HK needs to resort to fraud to sell their products as I alluded to in my post above, and re-iterate here in my sig line? Was looking for an HK defender to explain that one to me

Like I said in my first post in this thread, every time I post anything positive about H&K I become a lightning rod for everyones flames about H&K.

I do not work for H&K, It is not my job to defend them, I do not think H&K are perfect, but I do think peoples over zealous hatred of the company borders on the absurd.

...and the Corvette isn't a race car, the Ferrari is (or can be)...is that any different?

If a Corvette is not a race car, then I guess somebody forgot to tell these guys:

http://www.corvetteracing.com/

"but $4k for an upper" Seriously? wow

If you think that is too expensive, don't buy one. Why get all worked up about it?

I don't run around complaining that $450,000 is a ridiculous price for a car.

H&K 416 uppers are made in Germany where labor rates are extremely high. H&K have set up a US factory, just like SIG to make their products at more competitive rates.

BMW build every Z4 Roadster sold worldwide in the USA because it is less expensive. Mercedes does the same to get away from the socialistic overcompensation of German workers.

Disagree with that. Mercedes & BMW are fine autos, worth every penny. The 416 is the very definition of rip-off. Not even a close comparison.

You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how lacking in objectivity it may be.

I'll point out this irrefutable fact once again, there are large numbers of militaries, special forces, government agencies and police around the world using H&K piston driven weapons. Ever think there might be a reason or do you think they have all just been duped?

If you are looking for a new whipping boy, why don't you start complaining about Knights Armament also. Their products are expensive, they don't cater to civilians and they don't even have the excuse of German labor rates. They must be more evil than even H&K.