416 uppers? last chance?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

You said, according to my logic, based on the fact that there are MORE D/I ARs, they must be superior.

No, what I said was "If we are going to accept this line of reasoning, then we should all be using direct impingement M4s, since that is the overwhelming choice of experts across the world in the military, special forces, and law enforcement arenas.

Your repeated argument is:
"Experts the world over frequently choose H&K. That is a fact."
"Obviously all the experts are wrong and you are right."
"Enough experts have enough good things to say about the 416 that one can logically conclude it is not junk."

These all rely on the number of experts using the HK416 to justify your point. In my reply to you, I pointed out even more experts use the direct impingement M4 to show why that is a logical fallacy. Do you understand now?

And once again, simply appealing to "experts" without examining why they chose a particular tool doesn't really tell us much about whether that tool is useful for you.

You claim that the way they fixed it is bound to cause problems

No, I claimed the way they fixed it reduces the clearance between a critical operating part (bolt carrier group) and the upper receiver. Perhaps if you spent more time reading what I actually wrote and less time using your secret internet mind-reading powers, we'd be having a conversation.

Gladly. Here you imply that it is some kind of problem:

I see, so "imply it is some kind of problem" = "first you claim it is a major reliability issue" in your mind? It seems pretty clear to me that you do not understand my posts and I really have stopped caring whether I understand yours.

So I'll just let my last comment stand.

Colt charges the Army $800 for the M4 without accessories and the civilian equivalent (LE6920) sells for $1,250 retail.

H&K charges the Army $800-$1,425 for the HK416 and the civilian equivalent (MR556) will apparently sell for $3,000-$4,000.

Does H&K think you suck and want to rip you off? You decide.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

You know, it's all an interesting conversation (and thanks for the entertainment), but pretty irrelevant in the end, isn't it, since the XCR has rendered anything mentioned in this thread junk by comparison.

http://www.robarm.com/resources/products/xcrlstd/index.aspx

The 416 is claiming "best of AR and AK combined" - their argument to that claim cannot hold a candle to the XCR's argument for that, as it IS the Kalashnikov system, for all intents and purposes. And it has several other advantages over either. The reality is it's the best of AR, AK, FAL, Sig 556, and possibly a few others.

If we could all just agree on that, this thread can come to a swift conclusion - easy enough, right?

 

[John Parker]

If you look around you will find people who would disagree.

Also, other than internet rumor, do you have any direct experience with H&K's customer service that you can share with us?

I certainly do. I had a USP with an extractor that snapped about 2 weeks after I bought it. Broke right where the retaining pin passes through it. 'No big deal,' I thought. Brand new gun, under warranty, this won't be a hassle.
Trying to get Heckler und Koch to replace this item on a pistol under warranty was a nightmare. E-mails went unanswered, I sat on hold over the telephone after being passed back and forth between different people in the warranty department, etc. Then when I finally got my RMA number and sent the gun in, it took almost 11 weeks for it to get back to me.
I've used their hardward while deployed and much enjoyed it. I do think they make a very high quality product and I enjoy shooting their guns. But I won't buy another gun from them after the whole issue they made over such a minor repair.

 

[Suwannee Tim]

Quoting myself:

Having a BA in physics, a BS in ME and a BS in EE, the later two from the prestigious Columbia University I am qualified to hold forth on the topic of engineering design.

And again I quote myself:

I cannot generally look at two devices and determine which one has "better engineering". I don't think anyone else can either.

And again:

I am amused by the stereotype of the German engineers, all hyper-smart and hyper-effective, all with PhDs and calling each other "Her Doktor". German engineering is not better than American engineering.

And again:

The comparison between Chevrolet and Lamborghini is silly.

And yet again:

You are buying bragging rights when you buy HK.

I just love quoting myself, it makes me feel so important!

 

[HorseSoldier]

Nicely done.

 

[Maverick223]

HS, I have a friend in SF, that may or may not have direct or indirect experience with the 416, I will give him a shout and report back later.

Well I talked to my friend today and unfortunately he has not used, or know any fellow members that have used the 416.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I like how the ONE guy who chimed in that *does* have DIRECT experience with a 416 says it's less accurate than an average AK. If I paid more than $600 for such a gun, I'd be peeved, let alone seven or eight times that.

Again, back to the XCR, rendering all others irrelevant, here are pics:

[/Debate]

And before you ask, YES I do have the flip-up rear sight stored on the under-rail, and the flip-up front stored on the right side rail.

 

[Shadow Man]

Dr. Winslow, I have a question for you. I had heard early reports about the XCR, stating that it was prone to breaking and malfunctioning. Sad, because I had really liked the concept. Seeing as you own one, how does she perform? How many rounds have you put through her, and would you recommend one?

 

[Maverick223]

And before you ask, YES I do have the flip-up rear sight stored on the under-rail, and the flip-up front stored on the right side rail.

Looking at the photos first (as I am sure no one else does), that is just about the first thing I noted...good that I did read the post before asking. Other than being the best ever (which I assume means you decided to exclude the M17 ), how does it do...and what is it chambered in? I have toyed with the idea of getting one in 7.62x39 for a cheap plinker, but am undecided (might have to go with something else like an MSAR due to bullpup goodness).

 

[Shadow Man]

Could I suggest, Dr., that you start a thread about the XCR, complete with pictures? Would make my little heart happy...

 

[SpeedAKL]

...and the Corvette isn't a race car, the Ferrari is (or can be)...is that any different?

Don't get me wrong, I like H&K, particularly their line of pistols (my USP .45 has been flawless for a few thousand rounds), but $4k for an upper is a bit ridiculous.

The Corvette has won its class in the 24 Hours of LeMans, the most prestigious sports car race in the world, for almost every year this decade.

 

[SpeedAKL]

Anyhow I know this is the rifle form, but I have considered picking up a USP Compact as a carry gun; some of the things I've heard on here about H&K's customer service are starting to worry me a bit....

...and there is no way in hell I will pay $4000 for an AR upper unless it was made of weapons-grade plutonium