4198 powder for 55 grain bullets.

[spitballer]

I will soon be making another powder run and would like to pick up some 4198 to use in a .223 target rifle with 55 grain bullets. I'm inclined to go with the IMR powder but may buy the Hodgdon. I've used IMR 3031 successfully for years but have always wanted to try the 4198. Can anyone give me an idea what to expect from this powder? I'm not concerned with velocity as much as I'm concerned about muzzle upset with boat-tail bullets.

This will be for a 26 inch barrel, soon to be replaced with a 30. Thanks in advance for any constructive input, anecdotal or otherwise.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Even though 4198 can be used I don't like using such a fast powder in the .223 especially doe a 26" bolt action rifle. When loading for a semi-auto I use H335 but when loading for total accuracy in a bolt action rifle using a 55gr bullet I have had outstanding success with Varget. I have made loads that shoot sub 1/2MOA groups @100 yards.

 

[spitballer]

I tried the Varget but I could never pack enough into the case to get the pressure I needed

 

[spitballer]

Sorry if I'm slow to respond but I don't have internet at the house at the moment. Using library. Again, thanks in advance for any input, will check again tomorrow. - TH

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I tried the Varget but I could never pack enough into the case to get the pressure I needed

How in the world can you know how much pressure your load is generating? Also, if velocity doesn't concern you why would low pressure concern you?

 

[spitballer]

Well, I always seemed to get a lot of blow-by with the varget. However, I must admit that at about 26.75 grains, the groups started to tighten.

 

[243winxb]

The bullet seems to be the deciding factor in accuracy.

[/URL][/IMG] Click photo for larger view.

 

[loose noose]

I've used IMR4198 forever in everything from the 53 grain to 60 grain HP/BT in my bolt action as well as in my AR15 with a bull barrel in 20", and have all ways got superb accuracy. With the 53grn. a raggedy one hole group shooting 5 rounds at 100 yards was not exceptional.

 

[2ndtimer]

My experience with H-4198 in the .223 wasn't that good. Gave up at least 300 fps and the accuracy wasn't that great in my rifle. I have had better performance and accuracy with H-335, Accurate 2230, 2460, 2200 and 2015, Alliant Reloder 15, Ramshot TAC, IMR-4895, 4064, and 8208XBR, Varget and Benchmark. I would try other powders too, before I would go back to IMR-4198 or H-4198. And that was with bullets from 40 to 55 gr. But some people like it....

 

[243winxb]

2ndtimer makes a good point, IMR4198 will NOT produce the top velocity. It also does NOT flow well thru my 2 powder measures. Variations as much as 1/2 gr. are common. I may try another powder when the 10 lbs is gone. (need the snow to melt) Having tried 4 different IMR powders, the only other great accuracy load was using the Hornady 68gr match with IMR 3031.

[/URL][/IMG]Different guns will produce different results.

 

[spitballer]

Thanks guys. I'm satisfied that I won't be wasting my money if I pick up a can of 4198. Glad to hear that someone else has gotten as much use out of the 3031 as I have also.

I understand that the 4198's have been treated to make them more thermally stable. This might be helpful; one of the challenges with the 3031 is loading to accommodate a hot chamber (just ask the army!).

I won't be throwing the rest of my varget out, either. Thanks again. - TH

 

[kerreckt]

IMR4198 and 52gr. Sierra bullets (#1410) are the most accurate combination in both of my .223 bolt rifles. One is 1/9 twist and the other 1/12 twist. Both will shoot 5 shot groups you can cover with a dime at 100yds., regularly. Many times 5 shot groups half that size. Just started experimenting with 55 gr bullets and IMR4198 and haven't found anything that accurate....yet!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks guys. I'm satisfied that I won't be wasting my money if I pick up a can of 4198. Glad to hear that someone else has gotten as much use out of the 3031 as I have also.

I understand that the 4198's have been treated to make them more thermally stable. This might be helpful; one of the challenges with the 3031 is loading to accommodate a hot chamber (just ask the army!).

I won't be throwing the rest of my varget out, either. Thanks again. - TH

I'm fairly sure that's H4198 and not IMR4198 that is more temperature stable, H4198 being one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders.

 

[243winxb]

ADI powder now, if the MSDS is correct.

IMR4198 (AR2215) from IMR website

necessary elements were added to make it extremely insensitive to hot/cold temperatures.

http://www.imrpowder.com/msds.html

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So it looks like they are also changing the IMR powders to match the Hodgdon Extreme powder line. As long as it doesn't change the powders, that's a good thing...

 

[spitballer]

Had a blast this morning at 565 yd with the gongs, using the IMR 3031. 10 mph breeze played havoc with the 55 grain bullets, though. A real challenge, even though it was quartering away with an effective breeze of about 5 mph. Actually could have used 60 or even 65 grain bullets - about my limit with 12" twist - and definitely will not be throwing out my leftover varget.

Thanks again to everyone for the input on the 4198. I will definitely be buying.

 

[spitballer]

I'm fairly sure that's H4198 and not IMR4198 that is more temperature stable, H4198 being one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders.

I think you're right. Just picked up some of the IMR 4198 yesterday and it looks very much like a miniaturized version of 3031. Charcoal grey. Extreme powders have a yellowish cast. I'll be sure to load conservatively.

 

[frankge]

I picked up a 8#r of IMR 4198 at a gun show when there was literally no powder to be found. This can be used from my 7.62x39 and .223 - what I found for .223 is that it was really accurate but the long grains forced me to use my automatic powered dispenser to measure each charge - progressive was out. I have AR's with carbine and middy gas systems and it cycled them fine although I have heard that rifle systems is not so good. My load is 20.4g with a 55g bullet with no sign of pressure. I am using Tula ,223 primers. I would not recommend this power with anything heavier than 55g.

Since this is now made in Australia its rumor that you can load with H4198 charges because the load data on the web site is not updated. I'm not that anxious to eek every last drop of velocity and when I do I use something like H335.

 

[spitballer]

Started on the IMR 4198 this morning, and a tend to agree with ArchAngelCD that it has not been thermally stabilized, but I never really got cooking this morning so next week I'll have a better idea. I'm getting a ballpark figure of around 21.2 grains for 55 grain bullets, but that's after just a couple of five shot groups. I'll start with 21.25 grains and work outward from there.

A startling oversight on the part of the manufacturer if in fact this propellant is not stabilized as claimed, but then I'm just a hobbyist, not a professional.

 

[NCsmitty]

IMR4198 works well with the lighter bullets in the 40gr range, but going to 55gr and having a long barrel, you'll be losing velocity to the slower burning powders. My choice for my 14" 223 Contender is H4895, but there are a bunch of good powders that will give superior velocity and at least equal accuracy to IMR4198 and be mostly insensitive to temperature changes.
Hodgdon lists 20.4gr of IMR4198 as the maximum charge for 55gr SP at their site, and 18.8gr as the start load, so your start load of 21.25gr is suspect. The problem with faster burning powders is the fast pressure spikes that can occur if you push them too far too fast. You need to review the start load to be sure.

www.hodgdon.com


NCsmitty

 

[spitballer]

IMR4198 works well with the lighter bullets in the 40gr range, but going to 55gr and having a long barrel, you'll be losing velocity to the slower burning powders. My choice for my 14" 223 Contender is H4895, but there are a bunch of good powders that will give superior velocity and at least equal accuracy to IMR4198 and be mostly insensitive to temperature changes.
Hodgdon lists 20.4gr of IMR4198 as the maximum charge for 55gr SP at their site, and 18.8gr as the start load, so your start load of 21.25gr is suspect. The problem with faster burning powders is the fast pressure spikes that can occur if you push them too far too fast. You need to review the start load to be sure.

www.hodgdon.com


NCsmitty

You're right about 21.25 being too hot. Started out fairly well at just under 3000 fps with a half-inch group but topped 3200 fps by the 15th shot. Obviously I'll need to be careful with this powder! Thanks for input.