41p implementation and already submitted forms?

[Ed Ames]

This may be impossible to answer, but maybe some of you long-time ATF observers will have some insight.

Form 4s are currently taking 4-6 months to process, meaning if they cash a check on 8/15/2015, the associated form will probably finish processing between 11/15/2015 and 1/15/2016. Could be earlier or later.

The current date for 41p is 12/2015.

How does the implementation of 41P on 12/2015 affect a form 4 submitted on 8/15/2015?


If the form is approved before the final action date, does 41P touch it at all? An example would be if 41P placed new burdens on all existing trusts that own firearms/NFA arms, regardless of when approved.

If 41P comes into effect before the form is approved, will the form be grandfathered in as far as approval rules, or will it be bounced back for responsible person photos etc.?

If the form is grandfathered in, is there any difference between a transfer that was completed before the final action date and after? An example would be if 41P didn't retroactively change rules for existing trusts, but added language to the specific transfer approval that created new rules for the trust.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Ryanxia]

41P will not be 'retroactive', approved forms won't change. Pending forms are up in the air, my guess is would be denied.

Do you have a source that 41P is going into effect 12/2015? I have not heard that and a quick news search didn't bring anything up.

 

[Ed Ames]

I'm basing the 12/2015 date on this:

Timetable:
ActionDate 09/09/2013
Comment Period End*12/09/2013*
Final Action*12/00/2015*

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201504&RIN=1140-AA43

Obviously that has been postponed before and could be again, but I assume by final action they mean putting the new rules into effect.

 

[P226]

If your forms are already in nothing will change . If they do something in December it will be them making a "date" for when the changes will go into effect.

Now most lawyers that are involved in NFA believe it will be put of again for another 6 months.

 

[Ed Ames]

If your forms are already in nothing will change . If they do something in December it will be them making a "date" for when the changes will go into effect.

That's good. I want to add at least one more item to my collection but didn't want to get 4 months into the approval process and have the clock reset due to changing rules. I guess a lot of people have that thought given that approval times are apparently going up.

Now most lawyers that are involved in NFA believe it will be put of again for another 6 months.

That would be a start. Never would be better.

I was made rather unhappy earlier today when I encountered website which styled itself as "citizens against 41P" but basically said, "fighting the new trust rules is a lost cause, the only hope we have is to pass CLEO must-sign laws in NFA friendly states to solve the problem 41P introduces."

It doesn't solve my problem. I have a trustee who has limited interest in guns. They were OK with being a trustee when it was just a signature and maybe a headache when I die, but photos and fingerprints? Nope. When 41P takes effect I will need to have my trust modified to make them no longer a responsible person by ATF standards. Among other things.

 

[Elkins45]

You guys are making me want to send in a couple more Form1's while it's still not so much of a hassle. I wish we could just submit a "details to be added later" form.

 

[Swing]

You guys are making me want to send in a couple more Form1's

+1. There are a couple of Form 1 projects I just haven't gotten around to, but with 41P potentially coming, they may need to be moved up on the To Do list.