44-40 Win Original Load

[rodwha]

Were these originally loaded with 2 or 3F powder? Reading what little I found it didn't say, but gave very high velocity numbers, which I assume were rifle ballistics, though it didn't specify.

How did this compare ballistically (handguns) to the .45 Colt?

I noticed that Winchester shows one load (200 grn SP) for rifles, and one load (225 grn L) for handguns with the latter obviously a Cowboy Load.

I wonder if the .45 Colt were chambered in rifles back then if it would have been the more preferred. There's certainly an allure to having a pistol and rifle that carry one cartridge. More so then!

 

[Don McDowell]

In the original times of the 44wcf, there was no rifle or pistol load it was all the same, 40 grs of blackpowder (a powder about like what we consider 3f today) and a 205 gr bullet.For a velocity out of the 73's at just over 1300 fps, that should also of given a velocity around 1000 fps from a 7.5 inch colt. In the early 1900's they did load some high velocity loads intended for use in the 92 rifles only.
The 45 colt was never chambered in a rifle due to the small rim, and the folded head cases in use , a sticky case extraction could result in the case rime being torn thru, if the extractor could get ahold of it at all.

 

[Jim Watson]

I found a quote from the 1891 Winchester catalog recommending FFg for reloading .44-40.
Certainly any high velocity figures you read would be for a rifle.

The usual reason given for the lack of period rifles in .45 Colt is the narrow rim, adequate for headspace in a revolver cylinder, but not giving enough purchase to a rifle extractor. (Rims are wider now.)

There were enough .44-40 revolvers from many sources to serve the same ammo crowd.

 

[Don McDowell]

From what I can tell what they determined to be 1f rifle powder in those days is much closer to our 2f now days, so when they got into the 1-2f smaller size for cartridges containing less than 50 grs of powder it would be much closer to what we consider 3 f today. And if you load 3f and do the chronograph work today, the velocity and cleaner burning of those old loads is much more apparent than when loading 2f.

 

[Jim Watson]

I recall a gunzine article by a guy who was testing the tradition that the .32 Winchester Special was meant to be factory loaded with smokeless and reloaded with black, in the days before smokeless powder grades were standardized.

He was disappointed with recent production powder, but found some old DuPont, in the style of can used before WW I. The old stuff was about 100 fps faster, 1/3 more accurate, and fouled less than fresh Goex of the same granulation.
The old timers were not dummies and the powder business was hotly competitive, with advertising that would be laughed at or sued over today.

 

[Hanshi]

There is much truth in the often times heard statement that 19th century powder was "better" than comparable black powder made today; Swiss and Goex OE stand out as exceptions. The old powders were intended for reloading cartridge cases, primarily, and gave much better ballistics in cartridges (and c&b and cartridge handguns) than the muzzleloading powders frequently used today. 35 grains of Goex, Kik, etc, will not give the higher velocities that 35 grains of old black will give. Modern black will give marvelous results in a nice flintlock or percussion but will prove relatively modest in reloaded cartridges. Swiss and OE WILL give higher speeds in muzzleloaders than standard powders but only truly come into their own in metallic cartridges.

 

[Jim Watson]

Has anybody directly compared OE to Goex Express?
Express was just getting a toehold in BPCR when Hodgdon bought out Goex and simplified the lineup.

 

[Don McDowell]

Eynsford is faster and much cleaner than Express. It doesn't like quite as much compression as Express did. A volume measure set a 70 grs will be actual weight about 1 gr lighter than the Express.
Eynsford is a derivative of the Express recipe, is what the lady representing Goex at a recent shoot told me, when I questioned her about where the recipe for the stuff came from.

 

[StrawHat]

A fellow on the old Open Range Forum, w44wcf, did a lot of testing trying to duplicate the original load for the 44 WCF.

Here is a link to some of his work.

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9780.0

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9713.0

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=8706.0