44 bullet in 308 casing?
- Thread starter andyjason
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exflatlander
Member
.44 Auto-Mag maybe?
jaimeshawn3
Member
444 Marlin is more rifle length and is just a couple tenths longer than 308 case. You could use 444 Marlin dies and ream if you were interested in creating a 44 cal wildcat that you could build from a short Mauser type action. Be an interesting gun.
Remo-99
Member
44cal from a 308 or 30-06 case would be a straightwall rimless case, meaning it would need to headspace on the casemouth, there would be some headspacing issues in such a long straightwall case running high rifle pressures.
444marlin has a rim and the 458mag headspaces on the belt.(better alternatives).
444marlin has a rim and the 458mag headspaces on the belt.(better alternatives).
jaimeshawn3
Member
I've been thinking about your idea of a 44 Mag (0.431”) bullet in a standard (0.473”) rimless case (308 Win/8mm Mauser/30-06) and think you had a pretty good idea.
You could pick up an un-chambered Douglas barrel, already threaded for a Mauser Large ring action, and already with a #5 Sporter barrel taper for $250, use off-the-shelf 444 Marlin chamber ream and dies, and use 30-06 brass for your fire-forming. If you used the whole 63mm -06 length case, the ballistics should be pretty close to a modern loaded 45-70 at 3000ft#. Not a bad idea.
Nossler Partition 300gr bullets, Swift A-Frame 300gr, Sierra Sports Master 300gr all look like excellent bullets for that cartridge, and would have equivalent sectional density to a 150gr 308 bullet. You would get a lot of bullet arc, so this would be a 250 yd or less rifle, but inside 250 yds, you would get plenty of knock-down for most any critter.
So I did some more looking and found a 10.75mmx57mm Mauser-Mannlicher designed for big game in Africa. 350 gr bullet, 1950ft/sec, 2960 ft# ME developed around 1900, very very rare. People have tried this before, this cartridge has no shoulder, so would have to head-space off the cartridge lip like a 9mm or 45 auto pistol cartridge, but obviously that is not insurmountable.
I'd be very interested in how this works for you, if you try it.
You could pick up an un-chambered Douglas barrel, already threaded for a Mauser Large ring action, and already with a #5 Sporter barrel taper for $250, use off-the-shelf 444 Marlin chamber ream and dies, and use 30-06 brass for your fire-forming. If you used the whole 63mm -06 length case, the ballistics should be pretty close to a modern loaded 45-70 at 3000ft#. Not a bad idea.
Nossler Partition 300gr bullets, Swift A-Frame 300gr, Sierra Sports Master 300gr all look like excellent bullets for that cartridge, and would have equivalent sectional density to a 150gr 308 bullet. You would get a lot of bullet arc, so this would be a 250 yd or less rifle, but inside 250 yds, you would get plenty of knock-down for most any critter.
So I did some more looking and found a 10.75mmx57mm Mauser-Mannlicher designed for big game in Africa. 350 gr bullet, 1950ft/sec, 2960 ft# ME developed around 1900, very very rare. People have tried this before, this cartridge has no shoulder, so would have to head-space off the cartridge lip like a 9mm or 45 auto pistol cartridge, but obviously that is not insurmountable.
I'd be very interested in how this works for you, if you try it.
moooose102
Member
sounds like you are working on your first wildcat, the 44/08!
jaimeshawn3
Member
Well, It's AndyJason's idea. Actually I like the longer 06 case, w/o a shoulder, so it would be a 10.9x63mm. I've been thinking about moving up to a mid-range cartridge for some time, but 35 Whelen really isn't much different than my normal elk load of 30-06 loaded w 200gr Sierra. This moves the weight up a notch - and there really is nothing wrong with a 44cal blood channel.... At least I haven't heard any whining from the 444 Marlin crown and bullet diameter and the case volume would be exactly the same as that.
Seems like there are not many cheap project Mausers coming up on gunbroker, but I'll keep an eye open for one.
Seems like there are not many cheap project Mausers coming up on gunbroker, but I'll keep an eye open for one.
Elkins45
Member
Hey, I'm in the mood to wake this zombie thread up just in time for Halloween.
I independently arrived at the same idea of a straight walled round based on the 308 case that would be somewhere between a rimless 444 Marlin and 44 auto mag. I envisioned it as primarily a cast bullet gun so I think the 308 case would provide plenty of powder capacity instead of basing it on the longer 06 case.
Has there been any progress on this project since the thread went dormant?
I independently arrived at the same idea of a straight walled round based on the 308 case that would be somewhere between a rimless 444 Marlin and 44 auto mag. I envisioned it as primarily a cast bullet gun so I think the 308 case would provide plenty of powder capacity instead of basing it on the longer 06 case.
Has there been any progress on this project since the thread went dormant?
highlander 5
Member
Years ago I met a fella that work for Thompson Center. Seems that they would let their employees chamber wildcat barrels for themselves. T/C had a rifle frame before the Encore and I can't remember the name but I do remember that the cartridge was a 7 mm Mag necked up to 44 caliber. Safest place to be when it went off was behind it,thought the ball of fire that came from the muzzle was going to set the woods ablaze.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Successful straight-wall rifle cases are all either belted or rimmed.
Headspace/case stretch/broken cases would be a nightmare with a rimless large caliber rifle caliber.
rc
Headspace/case stretch/broken cases would be a nightmare with a rimless large caliber rifle caliber.
rc
Elkins45
Member
Why would this be any different than a straight walled pistol case like the 45 ACP? Or for that matter the 45 win mag or the various rebated head 50 caliber rounds that are being chambered in the AR? Or even the lowly 30 carbine, for that matter?
I understand the potential issues about headspace without a rim, but why would case stretch or any of the other issues be more acute?
Jim Watson
Member
The folks over at
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4801705#post4801705
think so, too.
Maybe you could get together and pass the hat for a reamer and other stuff for a .44 rifle project.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4801705#post4801705
think so, too.
Maybe you could get together and pass the hat for a reamer and other stuff for a .44 rifle project.
ljnowell
Member
Balistically what wouldbe the advantage over a high pressure 45-70 round?
Elkins45
Member
Nothing really. The advantages are more in case cost (cheap) and in platform. You can't run 45/70 through a short action gun.
This also has some potential in an AR upper.
gamestalker
member
Well I've seen personally what a 444 Marlin does to a white tail, and it ain't pretty! That deer hit the groud like it was hit by a wrecking ball. So your wildcat sounds like it has some real potential. I like the whole Douglas barrel idea that Jaimeshawn3 has, it sounds like it could be a really good hunting cartridge for just about anything.
DM~
Member
When did Nosler start makeing their 44 cal. partition in 300 grain? I've never even seen one listed...
DM
If you do it at least use a bullet of 350 grains or more and get a twist rate that works for that weight. I have a .444 (first run, still marked 336-444) and it has a 1 in 38 twist and doesn't shoot anything over 265 worth a hoot. In fact, the Leverevolutions don't shoot well either...box is actually marked 1 in 20".
OldmanFCSA
Member
My re-chambered 14" Contender in 444 Marlin with 1:20 twist will outshoot my Marlin rifle chambered in 444 Marlin with a 1:38 twist, anyday and especially with 315 grain cast gas-checked bullets.
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