44 Colt

[tkcomer]

What guns shoot the 44 Colt round? A friend went to the range and found some 44 Colt brass with a BHA headstamp. We're just trying to figure out what gun the guy might have used.

 

[rcmodel]

Something .44 Special or .44 Magnum.
Could be anything.
It's like shooting .22 Shorts in a .22 LR gun.

BHA = Black Hills Ammunition Company.

It is a once obsolete black powder caliber that has been revived by the Cowboy Action shooters looking for a sub-power, low recoil load for competition.

rc

 

[CraigC]

Not exactly, it's a long obsolete round resurrected for use in replicas of the guns that originally chambered it. Specifically, the 1860 cartridge conversions and the 1871 Open Top model, which was Colt's first dedicated cartridge gun. It is slightly shorter than the .44Spl with a smaller rim but is still longer than the .44Russian. I have two, both Cimarrons, one 1860 Richards Transition Model and an 1871 Open Top model.

Folks who just want a short, low recoil case typically gravitate towards the shorter .44Russian.

Open Top:


1860 Type II:

 

[LightningMan]

I have an original 1860 Army Richards Conversion in .44 Colt but it is not the same as what is being produced today by Black Hills ammunition. The modern ammo is .429 dia. inside lubed bullet, where as the original .44 Colt round used a heeled bullet like a .22 rimfire does, and the bullets dia is more like .454. LM

 

[CraigC]

Yep, the original used a heeled bullet designed to obturate the bore of a percussion barrel designed for .454" roundballs. COTW lists bullet diameter as .443". The interesting thing is that it was originally offered in both centerfire and rimfire versions, with the 1871-1872 Open Top model being rimfire only.

The modern version uses an inside lubed, standard-issue .430" cast bullet designed for the .44Spl or .44Mag. Done so for obvious reasons.

 

[brushwolf]

Help-- i have a new uberty 1871/72 open top. Shot it a dozen times, the action freezes , removed barrel and cylinder to find fireing pin stuck in primer. Shortened firing pin, shot 12 times, action started to freez up. Cleaned gun again. Now just by firing a primed case, the action freezes up. Or rather the lock freezes up. The cylinder will move just a bit. Have to remove barrel/cylinder to free it. This happen to any one else? [email protected]

 

[StrawHat]

The new ones use the inside lubed bullet but the outside heeled bullets are still available and can be reloaded into the modern cases. Using them in the older revovlers is a good way to keep the older guns shooting.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

The interesting thing is that it was originally offered in both centerfire and rimfire versions, with the 1871-1872 Open Top model being rimfire only.

Was this the same rimfire bullet that was used in the Henry and the Winchester "Yellowboy" rifle?

 

[CraigC]

Not sure if the two were even compatible. The .44 Henry was over 2/10's shorter but with a significantly larger rim. Not sure if it would fit in the Open Top without the rims interfering. Wasn't a lot of room for big rims in those guns. Unless I'm mistaken, the new replicas use a slightly larger cylinder, which is why they're able to chamber them in .44Spl and .45Colt. Which still have smaller rims than the .44 Henry.

 

[Onmilo]

brushwolf, send the hammer back to Uberti USA.
They had some guns come on the market with firing pin issues that cause the problems you describe.
They will replace the hammer assembly. HTH

 

[Nicodemus38]

44 henry rimfire was converted into the 44 henry centerfire, commonly known as the 44 henry CF Flat.

each of these cartridges was used to convert 44 caliber percusson revolvers to use cartridges as the bullet diameter was the same same. Its just that even with the improved chamber pressure of the 44 henry centerfire, the ballistics were not exactly as stellar as the user wanted. As a result the Colt factory boys lenghthed the 44 henry flat a bit more, and loaded a few more grains of powder in and we were given the 44 colt.

Although the cartridge was enjoyed, the military was not happy with heeled, outside lubed bullets due to the fact that dust and junk wold accumulate in the lube grooves and make bad problems for the soldier.

As a result, the us government demanded a new service handgun in a new cartridge based upon the same bullet diameter, but completely inside the cartridge.

the resulting guns were the sw schofield, and the peacemaker. the cartridges were 45 schofield and 45 lc. the rest is well, history.

 

[LightningMan]

Nicodemus, not all original ,44 Colt cartridges had bullets with lube on the outside. I have several of these original cartridges, while some do & some don't have an exposed grease grove, I do know after pulling one bullet (long story) from it's case, that it had a layer of bee's wax type substance under it. I've heard this before in one of Mike Venturino's books "Shooting Colt Single Actions". LM

 

[CraigC]

As a result the Colt factory boys lenghthed the 44 henry flat a bit more, and loaded a few more grains of powder in and we were given the 44 colt.

Not exactly. The Colt round has a much, much smaller rim and is longer. It was all they could stuff into the 1860 platform. The heeled bullet was used to obturate the larger .45cal bore of the percussion guns.

The Army rejected the Open Top in favor of a solid frame .45. Just a few months later William Mason unveiled the Single Action Army and the rest is history.

 

[brushwolf]

thanks onomilo.
i talked to Bob Munden about it today. i am going to sent it to him asap. i wolud trust Mr. Munden over anyone in the factory. i only plink every so often. but when i do, i want the gun to work.