Big Bore Musings

[ugaarguy]

Shooting my 1911 in 45 ACP, and running 44 Specials out of my friend's S&W 629 Classic has got me to thinking. I'm thinkin' the old slow, heavy, low pressure big bores need a resurgence. In a low light defensive situation the reduced flash of rounds like 44 Spc, 45 Colt, and 45 ACP (when compared to 9mm, 357 Mag, etc.) is a great advantage in preventing flash blinding. In a confined space like you'd encounter in a home defense situation the lower muzzle blast is an advantage in protecting hearing. These round generally have mild recoil as well that allows for quick follow up shots, again providing an advantage. Since we're already starting with a round that's .44" or .45" we don't need the increased chamber pressure to get extra velocity to expand the round to between .60" and .70", sometimes more. Since we're dealing with heavy slugs, usually 180 gr. to 250 gr, but sometimes heavier, the round again doesn't need as much velocity because it's mass gives it good inertia for deep penetration. A side benefit is that for those in states like NJ which restrict hollow point bullets the big bores already punch a good size hole without expanding.

I know that the 45 ACP is still going strong in auto loaders, and my musings above are reason (at least to me) to stick with it. On the other hand I just don't see the 45 Colt and 44 Special commonly marketed in defensive revolvers. The Charter Arms 44 Special snubbie, and S&W 625 Mountain Gun in 45 Colt are the noteable exceptions. Otherwise I see the 357 Mag Ruger GPs and S&W L Frames owning the service/defensive revolver marketplace. Maybe I'm weird but I think a 5 shot 44 Special or 45 Colt chambered Ruger GP or S&W K frame would make great defensive and all around utility revolvers. S&W has also squeezed 7 rounds of high pressure 357 mag into the L Frame. Why not squeeze 6 rounds of low pressure 44 Special or 45 Colt into the L Frame. I know the cylinder walls might be thin, but 44 Spc @ 15.5 Kpsi max and 45 Colt @ 14 Kpsi max are both less than half of the 357 Mag's 35 Kpsi max; so I see the slightly thinner walls being a problem.

Is it time for a big bore resurgence?

 

[s&w 24]

one of the things that realy hurts 44 special and 45 colt is that your still shooting 1960's bullets. I would like a 44 special load that is minimum 200 gr bullet at an honest 950-1100 fps. If you look at crono results instead of the factory data most 44 special loads are around 700-750 fps wich will work with home cast SWC/HP bullets but factory lead is too hard and brittle to axpand well at these velocitys.

 

[jlh26oo]

Sure, I'm convinced. Rise up.


So where does 10mm fit into your continuum of big/slow - little/fast? Guess you wouldn't include it in your revolution b.c of flash and pressure?

 

[Steelcore]

Taurus makes an Ultralite .44 mag in 2,5 and 4 inch.Good carrying gun but kicks a bit.Holds 6 shots.

 

[ugaarguy]

So where does 10mm fit into your continuum of big/slow - little/fast? Guess you wouldn't include it in your revolution b.c of flash and pressure?

You've hit the nail on the head. I like both the 40 S&W, and 10mm in autos - both very good rounds. However, my focus was on low pressure, low flash & blast rounds. Hence my exclusion of the 40 S&W and 10mm Auto, along with including the 44 special while excluding the 44 mag. I wouldn't call it a revolution either. I'm just looking more for a resurgence of some existing rounds.

 

[joneb]

This S&W 696 is one of my favorite Lead throwers

 

[ugaarguy]

That 696 is beautiful jibjab.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My carry gun is an M1911 (currently a Kimber Classic.) I agree with what you say in principle -- but even a Colt Detective Special isn't as flat as an M1911. When I look at my .45 Colts -- two Ruger Blackhawks and a Colt New Service, those guns are simply not practical for concealed carry. I also have a Colt SAA in .357 -- but it's dimensionally identical to a .45 in external dimensions.

It would be difficult to design a .45 Colt for convenient concealed carry -- which may be one reason the M1911 is the big bore of choice for this purpose.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Guns mags don't think so. No new wiz-bang-super-ultra-ninja-Ti-SCi-unobtanium stuff to sell subscriptions.

I don't like your thinking though-

What are you trying to do? Drive prices up? SSShhhh.....those are underpowdered cheap junk guns.

If it don't blow or burn the B-27 sillouette off the target hanger at 7 yards- you ain't usin' enough powder boy!!

 

[.357 magnum]

Excellent! I agree!

My calibers are the .45 acp and .40 Just got back from the range shooting my brand new Springfield .45 acp XD. Gentlemen this an awesome gun! Really Love how smooth it shoots. So far with around 150 rounds not a single problem. I was suprised the recoil was very acceptable, accuracy excellent. [ its the shooter, in my case took me a few rounds to get used to how it shoots] I shot mostlly 230gr cci fmj some 165gr power' balls and 230gr Winchester sxt. All shot well. The 165gr are plus p they come out at around 1350 in 4" service model. They had some punch, wife said she could really see the flash behind me. I would stick to the Winchester 230gr sxt for defense they expand quite well and you can repeat fire quicly and accurately. I realize the .40 is not a slow caliber but I love it just the same.

Have a good weekend everyone!

 

[slabsides]

I like low-end .45 Colt, .41 and .44 Mag loads in my big hunting guns for home defence, for the same reasons you cite. I wouldn't carry a big-and-slow, 14-inch long Ruger Super Blackhawk for off-premises defense...but tucked in a drawer, with non-earensplitten-loudenboomer loads, it makes the castle more secure fer sure.
I like a small revolver or self-loader in .38 Spcl. or 9mm P for street carry, with the fastest, nastiest, loudest loads I can manage. Toting guns need to be little and mean, but house-guns can be big, quiet and authoritative in a different but still VERY effective way.

 

[foob]

old slow, heavy, low pressure big bores ... These round generally have mild recoil as well that allows for quick follow up shots, again providing an advantage.

I would think a 9mm that exits the barrel at a faster velocity will allow for a faster follow up shot.

 

[brownie0486]

I would think a 9mm that exits the barrel at a faster velocity will allow for a faster follow up shot.

Just the opposite from my experience with 9 loadings. The 147's are the fastest follow ons for split times. Usually between .18 and .25 and averaging about .22 between shots that stay in COM.

Brownie