44 mag for SD Question

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Big JJ

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it is obvious to most people that most full house 44 mag loads are just way too much for SD because of the over penetration issues.
My question is as follows: You have the ability to shoot slow moving (800-900fps)44 mags along with a 300 grain weight bullet for SD, why do so many people opt for the much smaller grain weight bullets for there SD?
I understand it in the 44 special because of the shorter cylinder length.
I don't understand it in the 44 mag.
What am I missing or what are the reasons for carry the small bullets in 44 mag. for SD?
I am asking because I always carry a 357 for SD, but recently I acquired a 44 mag and I am considering a carry load for it.
 
A 300 grain solid bullet at 900fps, at defensive distances, will carry enough energy to shoot through probably 3 people. Lighter bullets with hollow points dump energy fast and will not shoot through 6 or 7 interior drywall and stud walls. Leave the heavies for killing thick bodied game. Stick with 44 special defensive loads. Just my 2 pennies.
 
What he said.

A 300 grain .44 bullet at 900 FPS will penetrate through a bull Elk, lengthwise!!

The lighter JHP bullets going much faster expands, does more massive tissue damage, then stops.

Like popping the drag chute on a top fuel dragster.

The 300 with no expansion is like the top fuel dragster with a blown drag chute.

Or the Ever-Ready Bunny.

It just keeps going, and going, and going!!

rc
 
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The heavy .44 magnum bullets are not going to help you for self defense.

They'll plow right through a human sized target. A lighter, JHP or SJHP is a far better choice. You want plenty of expansion. A .44 magnum will give you that and plenty of penetration. Cut expansion, and you increase the penetration even more.

It's just not a good idea to use most .44 magnum ammo for self defense against human attackers, with only a very few exceptions.

Fortunately, .44 special is excellent for self defense work and has plenty of power for the task.
 
with the majority of .357 mag ballistics tests ive seen with expanding bullets, it gets about 15 inches of penetration.. in ballistics gel tests with the 44 mag, it also gets about 15".. so with JHP expanding ammunition it should be fine
 
Team
I guess where I am going with this question is this, what is the advantage of the slow moving 44 mag or the 44 special over the 357?
Or is there an advantage?
I know the 357 is much smaller and easier to carry in almost any make or model gun.
Just trying to fill in blanks in my mind about this choice that I have now?
 
what is the advantage of the slow moving 44 mag or the 44 special over the 357?
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I use 240 gr bullets at about 1000 fps in my 44's. Based on my research it should be just about equal (maybe better) than typical 357 loads. The difference is less muzzle blast and recoil. It is more comfortable to shoot than full power 357 loads.
 
The platform for 44 Magnum is rather big for concealed carry, so let that settle the question. Open carry and hunting could be a different discussion. In any case, big bullets are more difficult to get moving and take their toll on the shooter. First step in developing a milder load is to use a lighter bullet.
 
I guess where I am going with this question is this, what is the advantage of the slow moving 44 mag or the 44 special over the 357?
Or is there an advantage?
I know the 357 is much smaller and easier to carry in almost any make or model gun.
Just trying to fill in blanks in my mind about this choice that I have now?
Click to expand...

Well the .44 magnum will leave a bigger permenant cavity, but your question is an excellent one. The FBI took a similar look at the situation and concluded that they would move from .40 back to 9mm. Their findings were that agents could shoot 9mm more accurately and rapidly than .40. Their findings also showed that agents missed 70-80% of shots in an encounter so an advantage that would increase the number of hits on target would outweigh whatever additional damage the .40 may or may not do.

If I were to stick with your .44 though, I would load it with 200gr Corbon DPX .44 Specials. Picture-perfect expansion to .70+ cal and around 15-16" of penetration. That is about as much tissue damage as you could ever hope for in a modestly recoiling load, about like a .45ACP.
 
If I were to stick with your .44 though, I would load it with 200gr Corbon DPX .44 Specials. Picture-perfect expansion to .70+ cal and around 15-16" of penetration. That is about as much tissue damage as you could ever hope for in a modestly recoiling load, about like a .45ACP.
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Going that route, I would conclude that I own the wrong gun. My SW696 and Taurus 441 demonstrate that one does not need such a big gun to shoot exclusively 44 Special as SD. A goal of minimal recoil is a bit of a conundrum with a 44 Magnum gun.
 
Dont forget; in SD you want penetration, but not OVER penetration. Must think about innocent bystanders. In my 44mag/44 specials i shoot blazer 200 gr or a handload of 5 gr bullseye with 240 gr xtp.
 
Going that route, I would conclude that I own the wrong gun. My SW696 and Taurus 441 demonstrate that one does not need such a big gun to shoot exclusively 44 Special as SD. A goal of minimal recoil is a bit of a conundrum with a 44 Magnum gun.
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I'd tend to agree it's maybe not the most ideal SD gun out there, but I wouldn't say it means it's the wrong gun overall. A .44 mag revolver has plenty of versatility and makes a great woods defense or hunting gun. I love my SW69, but if the question is SD, I'd rather have my G19. I'd still rather have the 69 than nothing though. I suppose if you feel the need to justify the 'magnum', you could stick with the Speer Short Barrel .44 magnum load, but it, along with the Corbon .44 Special load, only shoots a 200gr bullet at about 1000-1100 fps, regardless of whether it says Special or magnum on it.
 
I'd tend to agree it's maybe not the most ideal SD gun out there, but I wouldn't say it means it's the wrong gun overall. A .44 mag revolver has plenty of versatility and makes a great woods defense or hunting gun. I love my SW69, but if the question is SD, I'd rather have my G19. I'd still rather have the 69 than nothing though. I suppose if you feel the need to justify the 'magnum', you could stick with the Speer Short Barrel .44 magnum load, but it, along with the Corbon .44 Special load, only shoots a 200gr bullet at about 1000-1100 fps, regardless of whether it says Special or magnum on it.
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That is still significantly faster than 44 Special for that bullet (200 gr).
 
it is obvious to most people that most full house 44 mag loads are just way too much for SD because of the over penetration issues.
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Well the "over penetration" issue can be handled easily as some have explained here. A good jhp or a lswc ( if you cook one up that will reliably mushroom) that will expand and slow down meant for self defense applications will do that. Of more interest is what happens when you miss? You don't want a bullet that will go through exterior walls of homes and one or two interior walls and do damage still.

The bullet is often more important than the caliber. Select a bullet meant for the job. Whether self defense or hunting, match the bullet to the task. A 300 gr. bullet is generally considered a hunting weight bullet.

The more practical reason against it, than the considerations of over penetration, is that there are few shooters that can handle a 44 mag or 44 special (or 45 Colt) with 300 gr. bullets shooting fast and accurately. A 200 gr. pill at 900-1100 fps would be a better choice. You can always increase the weight of the bullet and/or it's velocity if you do not lose appreciable speed and accuracy. These latter things are critical for self defense against humans or animals.

tipoc
 
That is still significantly faster than 44 Special for that bullet (200 gr).
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Your original objection seemed to be with my recommendation for the Corbon load. I did not offer a blanket recommendation for .44 Special though I also don't think there is anything wrong with other .44 Special loads. The recommended .44 Special 200-gr Corbon DPX load is standard pressure. It is listed at 950fps, but averaged over 1000fps (1013) from a 3" gun in the link below. I don't know what to tell you. Go with the magnum rounds if somehow the idea of letting all that 'magnum' go to waste bothers you.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 44 Special DPX Report.htm
 
id have no issues using 44 mag for self defense.. and they dont kick nearly as hard as some people make them out to

as for agents getting more hits on targets, ive learned most agents and law enforcement officers are generally very poor shots, practicing the minimum.. practice a bit more than minimum and you should be more accurate

i also dont aim when i practice self defense shooting since in many self defense scenarios you simply wont get the opportunity to.. point shooting multiple targets as fast as i can to where hitting what i want becomes instinctual as opposed to some over-thought process

unfortunately big 6 shot magnum caliber revolvers arent so concealable, so i have a bulldog classic in 44 special
 
One can get a Speer Gold Dot 200 grainer at 1200 fps. In fact Corbon makes a 225gr DPX 1200fps and Buffalo Bore makes a 180 JHP at 1387 fps from a S&W Mod. 329, 4.0 inch barrel.

THAT ought to do it! All are made for SD, and not hunting.

Deaf
 
It seems we are getting to a lot of lap over bullet weights and FPS between the 357 and the 44 mag/special.
So given the fact that I have both the 357 mag and the 44 mag, what would you guys think is the best bullet and weight and fps for a self defense round from either caliber?
My current carry load is Hornady 357 125 grain Self Defence brand.
This comes out of my LCR at about 1200 fps.
I have no problem hittin a 6 inch target at 30 feet with it in a rapid fire mode.
Should I change now that I have the option to do so, or do you guys think this is about the best choice?
My concern about this load is that it my be a little to hot and could over penetrate.
 
125 grain 357 Mag loads have some of the best defensive statistics out there. Typcally those loads are a good hollowpoint rated at 1400 fps from a 4" barrel.

I don't see anything wrong with your load, personally. You have a good load. Many good loads will yield similar results. I love the 44 Mag but for defensive purposes it stays in the safe. As mentioned, big and lots of horsepower. Long ago I stopped stewing over 'that' single great load which would leave me without concern. I use a good 357, 45 ACP, even 38 Special and 9mm since it will be shot placement and how one handles themselves in that situation which will get one through. Now I look at type of carry and application since there are so many good loads.
 
It seems we are getting to a lot of lap over bullet weights and FPS between the 357 and the 44 mag/special.
So given the fact that I have both the 357 mag and the 44 mag, what would you guys think is the best bullet and weight and fps for a self defense round from either caliber?
Click to expand...

I am thinking that Hornady and Speer do well at determining the answer. The gun size is the all important variable. My use of Speer Short Barrel would work for me if I had an LCR and is what I use in my SP101 and SW60. Loads with bullets over 125-135 push back too hard in smaller guns.

The 44 Mag question also can't be addressed without knowledge of the gun size. It is pretty academic, and unless seriously considering carry of the cartridge, the standard I chose of 240 gr and a load I can stand, while seriously magnum, would be good enough, I would expect. Again, the offering from Speer or Hornady would probably be pretty sensible and where I would look first for SD ammo. My reality is that I reload coated lead in 240 gr. and shoot only at paper so far.
 
I want to thank everyone of you for your time and opinions based on research and experience.
I believe I have decided to stick with my 357 Hornady loads for my CCW and go with the Barns 240 grain Vortex for my 44 mag as a woods load.
You guys have a wealth of knowledge thx for sharing.
 
Of course it's secondary to winning a gunfight but a 44 mag fired in a closed space (like a car or room) WILL cause substantial and permanent hearing loss.
 
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