44 mag rifle loading

[brewer12345]

Now that I feel like I have figured out 38 special and have a start on 357 mag, I want to start fooling around with 44 mag loads for a Marlin lever. My first goal will be a lower end load for plinking and bunny whacking. After that, something more mid-range. I would love to gin up a hunting load, but 44 mag from a rifle is barely legal for deer in my state so I would probably always use factory ammo just to avoid arguments.

Any suggestions on a low end load? Its a Marlin so cast bullets may be a problem. I have not slugged the bore, so don't have exact bore dimension. My choices for bullets are either MBC cowboy RNFPs at 12 Brinnell that are really intended for 44 Special, or Nosler Sporting Handgun in 240 grain JHP flavor. I would think cast would be ideal for this and the rifle has been accurate with the (very expensive) ultramax cowboy action 44 mag load, but I also know that lots of people have had problems with cast in Marlins. Can I get this sort of load out of a jacketed bullet? I have Unique, H38, Trail Boss and Universal on hand, which are the powders in my pile that seem likely candidates.

For the mid range load, I am thinking the Noslers and either one of the above powders or 800X, Lil Gun, or Longshot.

Any suggestions appreciated. I know 44 mag in a rifle usually gets a pretty big boost from pistol data, so keeping it below "bits of rabbit all over the landscape" levels may be a bot of a challenge.

 

[rondog]

Slug your barrel, it may want/require larger bullets than standard .429-.430 revolver size. My Winchester likes .4315 in jacketed, .433 in powdercoated cast.

These are 240gr. JSP's from Roze Distribution. Best shooting bullets I've found for my Winnie. I have a new Marlin 1894 but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. Pretty sure these will knock the snot out of a Colorado mulie. Sure did a number on a mess of 1 gallon water jugs!

 

[RealGun]

Now that I feel like I have figured out 38 special and have a start on 357 mag, I want to start fooling around with 44 mag loads for a Marlin lever. My first goal will be a lower end load for plinking and bunny whacking. After that, something more mid-range. I would love to gin up a hunting load, but 44 mag from a rifle is barely legal for deer in my state so I would probably always use factory ammo just to avoid arguments.

Any suggestions on a low end load? Its a Marlin so cast bullets may be a problem. I have not slugged the bore, so don't have exact bore dimension. My choices for bullets are either MBC cowboy RNFPs at 12 Brinnell that are really intended for 44 Special, or Nosler Sporting Handgun in 240 grain JHP flavor. I would think cast would be ideal for this and the rifle has been accurate with the (very expensive) ultramax cowboy action 44 mag load, but I also know that lots of people have had problems with cast in Marlins. Can I get this sort of load out of a jacketed bullet? I have Unique, H38, Trail Boss and Universal on hand, which are the powders in my pile that seem likely candidates.

For the mid range load, I am thinking the Noslers and either one of the above powders or 800X, Lil Gun, or Longshot.

Any suggestions appreciated. I know 44 mag in a rifle usually gets a pretty big boost from pistol data, so keeping it below "bits of rabbit all over the landscape" levels may be a bot of a challenge.

My first approach to SASS was using my 44 Magnum 1894 Marlin. I shot the same 44 Special rounds as I used in my Blackhawk Flat Tops. I was using lead bullets (RNFP) and did get some leading near the forcing cone, but that was it. We have to keep velocities down and basically just want something that will exit the barrel and ring a nearby steel target with some accuracy. I used 200 gr bullets and 7.5 gr Unique. That is not really a light load, so if you used the same thing in Magnum cases, you might get the light load you want for less devastation of your target.

I don't believe this 1894 rifling is the same as on my 336CS in 30-30, so I don't consider it special in regard to leading concerns.

 

[ReloaderFred]

SAAMI specification for bore diameter in the .44 Magnum rifle is .431" diameter, and Marlin made their rifles to SAAMI Specs. SAAMI Spec for .44 Magnum bore diameter in a handgun is .429". I can't explain why it's this way, but it is, so your rifle in all likelihood has a bore diameter of approximately .431", which means your cast bullets are going to have to be at least that, but preferably .432", if the chamber will accept a bullet that diameter seated in the case.

Jacketed bullets seem to do fine with the .431" bore of the rifles, but cast bullets aren't as forgiving, and you'll likely get leading, skidding or tumbling of undersize cast bullets. Those who report problems with .44 Magnum leveraction rifles don't seem to know, or understand, the difference in the bore diameters between the two platforms. It also doesn't make a lot of difference whether you have Micro-Groove rifling or Ballard rifling, the bore diameters are the same. Once you tailor your loads to the rifle, it will shoot pretty good.

Most loading manuals have a section in the rifle pages for loading the .44 Magnum, so you might consult those for suggested loads.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Englishmn]

Trail boss is great for cowboy loads I was using 240grn swc Hornady cast shoots soft out of a revolver and quiet out of my Ruger 44 carbine just not enough power to cycle it.
Be great with a lever gun.

 

[brewer12345]

SAAMI specification for bore diameter in the .44 Magnum rifle is .431" diameter, and Marlin made their rifles to SAAMI Specs. SAAMI Spec for .44 Magnum bore diameter in a handgun is .429". I can't explain why it's this way, but it is, so your rifle in all likelihood has a bore diameter of approximately .431", which means your cast bullets are going to have to be at least that, but preferably .432", if the chamber will accept a bullet that diameter seated in the case.

Jacketed bullets seem to do fine with the .431" bore of the rifles, but cast bullets aren't as forgiving, and you'll likely get leading, skidding or tumbling of undersize cast bullets. Those who report problems with .44 Magnum leveraction rifles don't seem to know, or understand, the difference in the bore diameters between the two platforms. It also doesn't make a lot of difference whether you have Micro-Groove rifling or Ballard rifling, the bore diameters are the same. Once you tailor your loads to the rifle, it will shoot pretty good.

Most loading manuals have a section in the rifle pages for loading the .44 Magnum, so you might consult those for suggested loads.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Fred, I am aware of the split in SAAMI bore specs. This is why I am tempted to just give up on cast bullets and go with jacketed. I am puzzled as to why the Ultramax cast cowboy stuff shoots very well in my rifle, though. Very soft lead that obturates well and makes up the difference? I will try some soft lead bullets with Trail Boss and if it is a mess I will probably just use the jacketed and not look back unless I buy a revolver in this cartridge. After all, with the sale Sportsmans Warehouse is having on Nosler sporting 44 mag in JHP, its not like jacketed isn't cheap enough. I just have to figure out how to get a mild, accurate load out of them that won't blow up bunnies.

 

[Shaq]

My Marlin 44 and S&W 629 are very accurate with cast bullets & Trail Boss, loaded to around 900 fps. The Hornady Manual has great loads for that powder. I don't get any leading as long as they're not faster than 1,000 fps.

 

[Malamute]

Ive used 9 grs Unique with either a 240-250 gr cast bullet in pistols, or a 200 gr flat point in rifles. The 200 gr load is very mild in the carbine, similar to 44-40 factory or black powder level loads, and not at all destructive on small game (neither are the 240-250 gr loads for that matter). Find a load that will run the bullet roughly 1000 fps in a pistol, or 1300 fps in a rifle with your powders, and it should give the same pleasant results. Not pushing the cast bullets very hard may be easier to get acceptable accuracy for small game hunting. if possible to get correct sized bullets for your individual gun, they will still probably be OK in your pistol at moderate velocities. For shorter ranges, I don't sweat it, and just don't worry about super precise accuracy. They still seem to kill small game fine, just as the old factory 44 spl 246 gr RN lead bullets did in my Marlin years ago.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Fred, I am aware of the split in SAAMI bore specs. This is why I am tempted to just give up on cast bullets and go with jacketed. I am puzzled as to why the Ultramax cast cowboy stuff shoots very well in my rifle, though. Very soft lead that obturates well and makes up the difference? I will try some soft lead bullets with Trail Boss and if it is a mess I will probably just use the jacketed and not look back unless I buy a revolver in this cartridge. After all, with the sale Sportsmans Warehouse is having on Nosler sporting 44 mag in JHP, its not like jacketed isn't cheap enough. I just have to figure out how to get a mild, accurate load out of them that won't blow up bunnies.

I would bet the Ultramax bullets are pretty soft, considering they're marketed for SASS shooting, so they may be obturating up and filling the bore. I use TrailBoss for all my SASS loads in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, and I really like the powder for those purposes. I cast all my SASS bullets at Bhn 12, and get no leading at all. TrailBoss is a pretty fast powder and works great for cast bullets. Just don't go too light with the jacketed bullets and stick one in the bore. There's a lot of friction to overcome in that longer barrel with jacketed bullets, and a light load that will clear a handgun barrel may not clear the rifle barrel. Just something to think about.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[brewer12345]

I would bet the Ultramax bullets are pretty soft, considering they're marketed for SASS shooting, so they may be obturating up and filling the bore. I use TrailBoss for all my SASS loads in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, and I really like the powder for those purposes. I cast all my SASS bullets at Bhn 12, and get no leading at all. TrailBoss is a pretty fast powder and works great for cast bullets. Just don't go too light with the jacketed bullets and stick one in the bore. There's a lot of friction to overcome in that longer barrel with jacketed bullets, and a light load that will clear a handgun barrel may not clear the rifle barrel. Just something to think about.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Very helpful, Fred, thanks. I will start with Trail Boss and the soft cast I have. For the mid range jacketed I will probably give Unique a try.

First I have to put the scope on the rifle so I can really tell what is happening. After trying to deny my eyesight is going downhill, I surrender...

 

[RealGun]

SAAMI specification for bore diameter in the .44 Magnum rifle is .431" diameter, and Marlin made their rifles to SAAMI Specs. SAAMI Spec for .44 Magnum bore diameter in a handgun is .429". I can't explain why it's this way, but it is, so your rifle in all likelihood has a bore diameter of approximately .431", which means your cast bullets are going to have to be at least that, but preferably .432", if the chamber will accept a bullet that diameter seated in the case.

Jacketed bullets seem to do fine with the .431" bore of the rifles, but cast bullets aren't as forgiving, and you'll likely get leading, skidding or tumbling of undersize cast bullets. Those who report problems with .44 Magnum leveraction rifles don't seem to know, or understand, the difference in the bore diameters between the two platforms. It also doesn't make a lot of difference whether you have Micro-Groove rifling or Ballard rifling, the bore diameters are the same. Once you tailor your loads to the rifle, it will shoot pretty good.

Most loading manuals have a section in the rifle pages for loading the .44 Magnum, so you might consult those for suggested loads.

Hope this helps.

Fred

I reviewed the entire array of "44 Magnum rifle" ammo offerings by MidwayUSA, as an example resource, and saw no mention of bullet diameter. I must say that having a rifle spec with a larger bore diameter than handgun seems a ridiculous idea. My Marlin 1894 rifle didn't come with instructions that an owner must cast his own bullets.

I did a quick review of bullet offerings from Missouri, Xtreme, and Penn. The Missouris would be .430 only, the Xtreme .429 only, and Penn offering to size as desired, discussing the diameter issue here. Penn's standard offering is .430.

 

[RealGun]

I reviewed the entire array of "44 Magnum rifle" ammo offerings by MidwayUSA, as an example resource, and saw no mention of bullet diameter. I must say that having a rifle spec with a larger bore diameter than handgun seems a ridiculous idea, when the bullet and ammo sources ignore the distinction. My Marlin 1894 rifle didn't come with instructions that an owner must cast his own bullets.

I did a quick review of bullet offerings from Missouri, Xtreme, and Penn. The Missouris would be .430 only, the Xtreme .429 only, and Penn offering to size as desired, discussing the diameter issue here. Penn's standard offering is .430.

 

[brewer12345]

I reviewed the entire array of "44 Magnum rifle" ammo offerings by MidwayUSA, as an example resource, and saw no mention of bullet diameter. I must say that having a rifle spec with a larger bore diameter than handgun seems a ridiculous idea. My Marlin 1894 rifle didn't come with instructions that an owner must cast his own bullets.

I did a quick review of bullet offerings from Missouri, Xtreme, and Penn. The Missouris would be .430 only, the Xtreme .429 only, and Penn offering to size as desired, discussing the diameter issue here. Penn's standard offering is .430.

I guess if you are shooting jacketed bullets exclusively it doesn't matter that the rifle spec is different from the revolver spec.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've had the discussion about the differing bore diameters with the Marlin rep for Remington at the past two SHOT Shows. He was going to bring it up with the engineers. I pointed out to him that no jacketed bullet manufacturer makes a .44 bullet in .431" diameter, and he agreed. I don't know if that will have any influence on future models of the rifle, but they're now aware of it, as he wasn't at the time.

I've been attending the SHOT Show since 1991, and I've found that sometimes the manufacturers aren't aware of the consumer's concerns, so I'm not bashful about bringing them to their attention.........

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Malamute]

Its pretty surprising to hear they had no idea about the differences in saami specs, I believe they have been standardized for quite a long time.

Yes, slightly undersize jacketed bullets often shoot fairly well. There wasn't much reason for factories to worry too much about what reloaders were doing or bullet/groove diameters when most or all of the available factory loads had jacketed bullets. I had a 336 44 mag, the one with the little spring loaded gizmo on the carrier that elevated the cartridge evenly so it would feed better (or that was the hope). It didn't feed Winchester factory 240 gr lead loads (this was mid 1970s) worth a hoot, basically because of the sharp shoulder on the bullet. I called the factory, the guy I talked to said "Thats a pistol bullet, you have to use rifle loads". So, it wasn't a problem to him, I was using the wrong loads. I think the same outlook applies to other things that users feel is a problem, but the factory doesn't. Its YOUR fault/problem, not the guns. There may be some validity to that from the manufacturers standpoint, though some people want broader horizons than just using whatever is available over the counter at the local shop and may have other uses in mind than can be covered with limited factory ammo options. Some are slowly getting on board over time, Marlin has offered other rifling types than microgroove because of lead bullet use, but their groove diameter choice hasn't quite caught up yet. Still, I think most if not all manufacturers specifically state not to use reloaded ammo. Besides covering themselves liability wise from people reloading ammo that have no business doing so, it also gives them room to not deal with esoteric issues that individuals may have when trying to use oddball loads. The groove diameter thing between 44 mag handgun and rifle is weird though.

Back in the end of the dinosaur and horse and buggy days (1950s-60s or 70s) there were "carbine only" loads available for 44 mag. I don't know that the actual cartridges were marked to differentiate, I wonder if the wider groove diameter allowed by saami was to reduce pressure of those loads? Ive never seem any info about what pressure they ran, "officially allowed" or not.

 

[ReloaderFred]

For the most part, firearms manufacturers don't build their products for reloaders. This makes sense when you consider all the possible combinations of components that can be cobbled together and called "ammunition". I have a couple of good friends who are gunsmiths, and cater to SASS shooters. They've both shown me some of the so-called "ammunition" that has been included with rifles that the owners said "weren't any good", because they wouldn't shoot what the owner called "ammunition" of their own making. Some of the owners of those firearms get really defensive when they're told it's their out of spec ammunition that's the problem, not the rifle, particularly with reproduction Winchester 66's and 73's, both of which are pretty tempermental about the OAL of the ammunition they're fed.

Marlins are no different, but the problem with the newer vs. older Marlins is the change in ownership and all it's attendant problems. The person making the gun today isn't the person who was making them 10 years ago, and not on the same equipment. The manufacturing "memory" is gone, and I don't remember Remington ever making a .44 Magnum rifle in the past. That doesn't mean they didn't, only that I'm not aware of one, so it may be possible they weren't aware of the differing specifications for rifle and handgun in SAAMI. I also don't know if they were using the rifling broaches from Marlin, or had new ones made.

There are a lot of variables, and it would be virtually impossible to foresee all of the combinations.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Just a note, even though I doubt you will have a problem with lead bullets and that micro groove barrel, if you do you can shoot coated bullets from Missouri Bullets. They even work well in a Glock barrel.

 

[RealGun]

When the bulk of the sales of a particular gun is to SASS shooters, or the model name or description even includes "SASS", there is no escaping that the gun is expected to perform well with lead bullets, the only kind SASS allows on their steel targets at close range. The gun should be designed accordingly. It seems like the gun makers think a low profile hammer or a short stroke action is all the customizing they need to provide.

 

[Malamute]

Remington did make the 788 in 44 mag for a while. I believe it was the 70s or so.

Another interesting off topic bit regarding 44 rifles, the older slower rifling twist of factory 44 mag rifles has often been called into question as "odd", and responsible for poor accuracy in all sorts of loads, including 240 gr jacketed and similar. Funny the factories were so in the dark for so long about that (1950s to very late 1990s or later). I do recall most of the guns available shot decently well with the common bullet weights than used, some better than decently, with that "wrong" rifling twist. Is the faster twist better overall? Probably, but I find it humorous when that rifling twist is sometimes the first thing to blame when a load doesn't shoot well.

 

[redbullitt]

Mine shoots well with .433 cast bullets. 800x and trailboss work, 2400 and UNIQUE work VERY well, h110 296 and lil gun work for the faster stuff.

Jacketed stuff works great too. Both nice mid level loads with my cast bullets shoot into 2 inches at 50 yards with my coarse iron sights, but it is not a microgroove barrel mind you. I only had one microgroove rifle, and it was okay too.

That marlin will probably do fine with the cast bullets, especially with mild loads.