44 magnum brass 44 special performance
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
7.5 to 8.0 Unique.
W-296 is not at all usable in that low pressure down-load application.
Red Dot would also work, but it wouldn't be my first pick for jacketed bullets.
Probably around 5.0 to 5.5 grains, but thats just an untested WAG.
Untested data. Use both loads at your own risk, if you use then at all.
rc
W-296 is not at all usable in that low pressure down-load application.
Red Dot would also work, but it wouldn't be my first pick for jacketed bullets.
Probably around 5.0 to 5.5 grains, but thats just an untested WAG.
Untested data. Use both loads at your own risk, if you use then at all.
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
But you have to add a little powder to make up for the larger case capacity using .44 Mag brass.
And you don't want to go too low when using jacketed bullets to prevent sticking one in the bore.
rc
And you don't want to go too low when using jacketed bullets to prevent sticking one in the bore.
rc
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Not very 'close enough' to be safe.
Use .44 Spl. data in .44 Mag brass.
Just up the starting loads a little to make up for more case capacity.
Besides, Hodgdon website has plenty of pressure tested data for light loads in the .44 Mag.
It's not like there isn't any!
rc
Use .44 Spl. data in .44 Mag brass.
Just up the starting loads a little to make up for more case capacity.
Besides, Hodgdon website has plenty of pressure tested data for light loads in the .44 Mag.
It's not like there isn't any!
rc
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
My practice has been, when I want "Special" performance in a "Magnum" case I load the Max charge from the Special load data for that bullet in the slightly longer case and that has worked out very well for me... Since it's the Max charge it gives you enough leeway not to cause a squib load. Alliant is reporting a velocity of 836 fps in a Special case with a Max charge of Unique and a 240gr JHP bullet. You might need slightly more powder to reach the 800 fps mark you're looking for. I agree right around 7.8gr to 8.0gr Unique will probably give you exactly what you are looking for...
oldpapps
Member
All that I can add is, that sounds like a waste of jacketed bullets.
For what you are wanting, lead would be better, cheaper, more loading data and better on target.
Head what rcmodel and the rest have advised.
With care...
For what you are wanting, lead would be better, cheaper, more loading data and better on target.
Head what rcmodel and the rest have advised.
With care...
Sunray
Member
You have to work up the load for your revolver using data from your manual. Of the powders you list, only Unique is given on Alliant's site for .44 Special jacketed bullets. Do not make up your own data.
"...How closely would a 45lc load correlate?..." Not at all.
"...But you have to add a little powder..." Loading .44 Mag cases to Special velocities is no different than loading .357 to .38 Special velocities. You don't need to increase anything.
"...How closely would a 45lc load correlate?..." Not at all.
"...But you have to add a little powder..." Loading .44 Mag cases to Special velocities is no different than loading .357 to .38 Special velocities. You don't need to increase anything.
Ric
Member
8.5 grn Unique for 1065 fps
7.5 grn 231 for 914 fps
But those are with lead bullets. Excellent loads though
7.5 grn 231 for 914 fps
But those are with lead bullets. Excellent loads though
Mad Chemist
Member
I've fired 7.5gr of Unique from a S&W 21-4 using a 240gr MBC Keith-style bullet. Recoil was stout but manageable. We settled on 7.0gr for the 21-4. 7.5gr of Unique should be really gentle from a magnum revolver unless it's a Mt Gun or other alloy frame revolver.
I would run the JHP bullets a little hotter if they are for serious "social" work. If you want to reduce the recoil a little try the Speer 200gr GDHP, also known as the "flying ashtray" due to their very pronounced HP design. These are a very effective JHP for .44spl velocities. Most 240gr JHPs are designed for magnum velocities and may not perform as well down at 800-900fps.
I would run the JHP bullets a little hotter if they are for serious "social" work. If you want to reduce the recoil a little try the Speer 200gr GDHP, also known as the "flying ashtray" due to their very pronounced HP design. These are a very effective JHP for .44spl velocities. Most 240gr JHPs are designed for magnum velocities and may not perform as well down at 800-900fps.
Mad Chemist
Member
Sunray,
You do indeed have to add a little powder when trying to achieve a given spl velocity in the larger magnum case. This can be verified in the published data for both .38/.357 and 44spl/mag.
Look at the data for light target SWC or WC loads. In Speer #11 the data for .38spl 148gr HBWC data with Bullseye is 2.8-3.1 with a velocity of 741-799fps. For .357mag with the same bullet the charge of Bullseye is 3.0-3.3gr and the velocity is almost identical 733-806. Both test guns were Ruger Security Six.
The same principle is also demonstrated in the data for .44spl and .44mag gallery loads with Unique.
The principle is simple. If case volume decreases then pressure increases. If case volume increases pressure decreases. Pressure correlates directly with velocity. So if you want a given published .44spl bullet velocity but using a larger mag case, a slightly larger powder charge is required.
You do indeed have to add a little powder when trying to achieve a given spl velocity in the larger magnum case. This can be verified in the published data for both .38/.357 and 44spl/mag.
Look at the data for light target SWC or WC loads. In Speer #11 the data for .38spl 148gr HBWC data with Bullseye is 2.8-3.1 with a velocity of 741-799fps. For .357mag with the same bullet the charge of Bullseye is 3.0-3.3gr and the velocity is almost identical 733-806. Both test guns were Ruger Security Six.
The same principle is also demonstrated in the data for .44spl and .44mag gallery loads with Unique.
The principle is simple. If case volume decreases then pressure increases. If case volume increases pressure decreases. Pressure correlates directly with velocity. So if you want a given published .44spl bullet velocity but using a larger mag case, a slightly larger powder charge is required.
geo57
Member
The OP asked :
" How closely would a 45lc load correlate ? " ( For his desired purpose using the components he stated as having and using them in in .44 mag cases ) .
In reality and contrary to posters that said, " not very close enough to be safe " and " not at all " , in this specific case using Unique it would work very well and very closely approximates what several recommended including one that said it would be unsafe .
According to Alliant for .45 Colt : 7.8 grains of Unique under a 250 gr. GDHP gives 840 FPS.
I am certainly not saying that all .44 mag / .45 Colt data is safe to interchange . I'm saying that in this particular case and for what the OP desired in achieving that using .45 Colt data with Unique for their 250 gr. GDHP load will be fine for 240 gr. JHP in .44 mag cases and should come pretty close to his desired velocity range .
" How closely would a 45lc load correlate ? " ( For his desired purpose using the components he stated as having and using them in in .44 mag cases ) .
In reality and contrary to posters that said, " not very close enough to be safe " and " not at all " , in this specific case using Unique it would work very well and very closely approximates what several recommended including one that said it would be unsafe .
According to Alliant for .45 Colt : 7.8 grains of Unique under a 250 gr. GDHP gives 840 FPS.
I am certainly not saying that all .44 mag / .45 Colt data is safe to interchange . I'm saying that in this particular case and for what the OP desired in achieving that using .45 Colt data with Unique for their 250 gr. GDHP load will be fine for 240 gr. JHP in .44 mag cases and should come pretty close to his desired velocity range .
WestKentucky
Member
I load 231 in 44 mag cases at the top end of 44 spl data. Very good results overall. I shoot 200 grain hollow point or 200 grain keiths. Accurate and deer killing power with greatly reduced recoil.
Mod/Safety note:
Never use data from one caliber for another caliber without checking the data for the caliber being reloaded.
In other words, don't blindly use .45 Colt data in .44 Mag cases. For starters, the .44 bullet of the same weight will have more bearing surface. Check the .44 Mag data.
Will some .45 Colt loads be "safe" in .44 Mag cases? Probably, since the .44 Mag case is reasonably close to the .45 Colt in capacity. (Less, but not way less.), and the .44 Mag operates at a much higher pressure. But, do check .44 Mag data first. There are so many things that affect pressure that using data from one caliber for another isn't a good way to go about finding a load.
Never use data from one caliber for another caliber without checking the data for the caliber being reloaded.
In other words, don't blindly use .45 Colt data in .44 Mag cases. For starters, the .44 bullet of the same weight will have more bearing surface. Check the .44 Mag data.
Will some .45 Colt loads be "safe" in .44 Mag cases? Probably, since the .44 Mag case is reasonably close to the .45 Colt in capacity. (Less, but not way less.), and the .44 Mag operates at a much higher pressure. But, do check .44 Mag data first. There are so many things that affect pressure that using data from one caliber for another isn't a good way to go about finding a load.
Exactly.
gamestalker
member
The simplest way to go about this is to just find a light 44 mag load, no need to work with 44 spl. data. The difference in case capacity makes it a guessing game, just use light mag. data and powders intended for such. FYI, stay away from slow and mid range burn rates, cowboy and light target loads will get you what you desire.
GS
GS
geo57
Member
gamestalker, howdy.
The only thing I would point out in reference to what you said is that using " lite mag data " is still going to be a more potent load than the OP desired ( 240 gr. bullet @ 800 FPS ) . Even .44 mag target load data could be as be many loads pushing bullets that heavy run 1000 FPS or more.
You do mention cowboy loads and those can run the full gamut of the ridiculously mild for ultimate speed for their CAS type games to ballistics that closely match original BP era loads. As far as the latter, I use such a load myself for my informal " Cowboy " plinking " with my .44 mag. pushing bullets to closely mimic original .44-40 ballistics.
I consider Unique to be a mid range burn rate powder and it and those closely around that burn rate are ideal for what he wants to accomplish.
The only thing I would point out in reference to what you said is that using " lite mag data " is still going to be a more potent load than the OP desired ( 240 gr. bullet @ 800 FPS ) . Even .44 mag target load data could be as be many loads pushing bullets that heavy run 1000 FPS or more.
You do mention cowboy loads and those can run the full gamut of the ridiculously mild for ultimate speed for their CAS type games to ballistics that closely match original BP era loads. As far as the latter, I use such a load myself for my informal " Cowboy " plinking " with my .44 mag. pushing bullets to closely mimic original .44-40 ballistics.
I consider Unique to be a mid range burn rate powder and it and those closely around that burn rate are ideal for what he wants to accomplish.
gonoles_1980
Member
Give a range report when done. I'm still looking for a 44mag, probably a few months from buying one. I tested the Super Blackhawk at the range with 44spl, it was as easy to shoot as a 22lr, I was suprised. Not sure if I want to do like I do with my 357, only load light loads in the 44mag shells, or go with 44spl so my wife and son's and newbies can try it out.
Valkman
Member
That's exactly what I did a few months ago after I bought my new Marlin 44mag rifle. I had always shot medium mag loads out of my 629 revolver but wanted to try 44spl. After discovering that new ammo cost more than 44mag I too got some spl cases and load them with W231. Works great.
gotboostvr
Member
Thanks for the heads up on the red dot load. I use allot of it in 38spcl.
I use unique in 44mag for light loads, but I'm still looking for a load I like.
I just loaded up some 200gr plated rnfp's up over 8.5gr of unique.
I use unique in 44mag for light loads, but I'm still looking for a load I like.
I just loaded up some 200gr plated rnfp's up over 8.5gr of unique.
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