44 magnum reloads, data listed, need advice

[Typetwelve]

Ok...I'll try to provide all the info a neatly as possible.

Using these projectiles here:
https://summersenterprisesllc.com/product/44-240gr-430-500-ct-box/

These were giving me serious leading in both a 629 and a Super Redhawk at <1000fps so I set them aside for magnum loads.

Here's the loads I made and the results (chrono 12', new Super redhawk 7.5"):
-Unique 11.7g 1305 fps, large leading
-Acc No7 16.3g 1402 fps, massive leading
-2400 21g 1432 fps, mild leading
-H110 23.5g 1436 fps, light leading

Moving forward, I'm going to drop the Unique and No7. I'm going to take the 2400 to 22.4g (max listed at many places) and the H110 to both 24 and 24.5g.

The max listed for H110 is 24, but by what I'm seeing taking it up .5g is far from a +10%, which would be 26.4g. Would taking the 2400 23g be out of the question?

Any thoughts on this? As always, any advice is appreciated.

 

[Charlie98]

Not to kick you when you are down... but if you are getting leading at those velocities, why are you going to push them further??? It's obvious something is wrong... either the throats on the cylinder are mis-sized or mis-matched, or that bullet it either too hard and or is not the proper diameter.

 

[Typetwelve]

With the H110 load, I got significantly less leading than with the other loads.The only thing I can figure is hot/hard I'm pushing them. If I get them in the 1500 fps range and they still are leading at all, I'll probably chuck them.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

2 ideas.

First, try tumble lubing those projectiles. That blue lube is hard, and IME doesn't work all that well. A coat of 50/50 Lee alox/mineral spirits, or a 45/45/10 will do wonders. I've used this method with good results.

Second - that alloy is hard. It's advertised as 92-6-2 (Pb-Sb-Sn). It's going to need to be hit hard to obdurate, so I think you're wasting time with the 1000fps loads.
Do you cast ? I would recommend cutting that alloy 50/50 with some range lead, or even pure.
Although, I suppose that if you did cast, you wouldn't be shooting those....

 

[Typetwelve]

2 ideas.

First, try tumble lubing those projectiles. That blue lube is hard, and IME doesn't work all that well. A coat of 50/50 Lee alox/mineral spirits, or a 45/45/10 will do wonders. I've used this method with good results.

Second - that alloy is hard. It's advertised as 92-6-2 (Pb-Sb-Sn). It's going to need to be hit hard to obdurate, so I think you're wasting time with the 1000fps loads.
Do you cast ? I would recommend cutting that alloy 50/50 with some range lead, or even pure.
Although, I suppose that if you did cast, you wouldn't be shooting those....

Good ideas. Yes, I am not going to load those at special velocity anymore. I should have been a bit clearer that the H110 load had very little leading, so I think I'm on the right track. I really don't want to push those much over the 1500 fps range. If that doesn't clean it up 100%, I'll try tumble lubing them like you said. If that doesn't cut it...I'll shed them and move on.

 

[murf]

are you using a mag primer for the h110 load? if not, i'd try a cci 350 primer before going past the 24.0 grain mark. as already mentioned, that is a hard lead bullet and needs to be hit hard to obturate.

i'd stick with the h110 load and lube the bullet like hooda thunkit says.

luck,

murf

 

[Typetwelve]

are you using a mag primer for the h110 load? if not, i'd try a cci 350 primer before going past the 24.0 grain mark. as already mentioned, that is a hard lead bullet and needs to be hit hard to obturate.

i'd stick with the h110 load and lube the bullet like hooda thunkit says.

luck,

murf

Yes, when I made the batch I primed them all with Winchester magnum primers. I have been using the CCI 300 for all of my special loads, they have been great.

I had no issue with the Win primers yesterday, no flattening or signs of overpressure.

 

[murf]

wlp primers should work fine for the h110 load. 24.0 grains of h110 under a 240 grain bullet is a classic 44 magnum load.

luck,

murf

 

[Walkalong]

Those look like fairly standard cast 240 gr SWCs, so I would agree that you need to check the cylinder throats, they may be undersized. The easy way to start is to see if you can push one of the bullets through them.

 

[Herman B]

Have you slugged your barrel to ensure bullet-size compatibility? Leading is often symptomatic of a sub-optimal fit.

 

[gotboostvr]

Im wagering a wild guess that the bullets are undersized and hard. By pushing them harder they're bumping up and giving better fit/ less leading

 

[Walks]

I have a old SRH from the first batch, it's bore slugs out at .431dia, the chamber mouths run .4295 - .430dia, I push my Ideal #429244GC with a full charge of 2400. PC'd and sized they end up .431dia

No leading at all, you can increase bullet diameter by .001 with a coat of PC.

 

[joneb]

I have a RRH 44 mag w/a 7.5" barrel and it does not shoot lead bullets, w/o leading. The chamber throats are .434 and the groove dia. is .427.
I've tried many types of lead bullets from mild to wild and they all lead the bore, maybe the last Ruger 44 cal I will ever own.
I was curious about the GP 100 44spl until I had a chance to inspect one, .433" throats and .427" groove. No thanks I'll pass.
My S&W 696 with .429 throats and .427 groove shoots lead w/o leading?
Correction,
Ok my bad the throats on the Red Hawk are closer to .433
The groove diameter on the 696 is hard to measure because it is a five groove rifling.

 

[Typetwelve]

I have a RRH 44 mag w/a 7.5" barrel and it does not shoot lead bullets, w/o leading. The chamber throats are .434 and the groove dia. is .427.
I've tried many types of lead bullets from mild to wild and they all lead the bore, maybe the last Ruger 44 cal I will ever own.
I was curious about the GP 100 44spl until I had a chance to inspect one, .433" throats and .427" groove. No thanks I'll pass.
My S&W 696 with .429 throats and .427 groove shoots lead w/o leading?
Correction,
Ok my bad the throats on the Red Hawk are closer to .433
The groove diameter on the 696 is hard to measure because it is a five groove rifling.

I will say that my newer (2016) 4" 629 leads like crazy with those slugs as well.

I'll be honest, I'm just trying to use up those bullets....I'll never get them again. I moved to Missouri Hi-Tek for my 44 special loads and they've been superb. Yesterday I ordered some hard cast 240g Keith Hi-Tek form Missouri for magnum loads.

So...long story short, I'm just trying to find a use for these slugs, if I can't, I'll just shelve them.

I'd go through the work of slugging my barrel...but I don't cast and don'e have plans to cast anytime soon. With Hi-Tek bullets being affordable, I don't see the need for it at the moment (Yes, I fully understand that's a bullheaded statement).

 

[murf]

let us know if those new bullets lead your gun.

luck,

murf

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Have you checked the diameter of the bullets to make sure they're .430"?
Also, (this may be a silly question) are you taper crimping these finished rounds? If you get aggressive with a taper crimp, that can size everything down too small, and cause leading.

I also hate lead bullets with bevel bases. It just gives the gases something to cut around and cause problems.
I know some folks use them without issues, but it just creates another potential for a problem IMO.

Give me a flat base bullet any day. I'll flare the case enough to where it's not a problem.

 

[Typetwelve]

Have you checked the diameter of the bullets to make sure they're .430"?
Also, (this may be a silly question) are you taper crimping these finished rounds? If you get aggressive with a taper crimp, that can size everything down too small, and cause leading.

I also hate lead bullets with bevel bases. It just gives the gases something to cut around and cause problems.
I know some folks use them without issues, but it just creates another potential for a problem IMO.

Give me a flat base bullet any day. I'll flare the case enough to where it's not a problem.

They are indeed .430, I did mic them to make sure.

Crimp? I use Dillon Dies and according to them, it is what they call "accu-crimp"...I had to look that up. According to them:

"The accu-crimp is a two-stage crimp die. It starts with a taper crimp, which is sufficient for lighter loads. If a firmer crimp is needed, adjust the die down further. This applies a roll crimp on top of the taper crimp, giving a firm grip on the projectile."

I'll post a closeup pic of a round once I run some more later this week. I'll admit that the entire crimp issue is confusing. Everything else is pretty cut/dried...crimping? Not so much.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Usually I would say something about fit and such, but the fact that it is doing in multiple guns is stumping me.

 

[PapaG]

Any of the following reasons: cylinder throats larger than bullet diameter, alloy too hard or you are pushing too hard. Check throats first. Bullet should be a TIGHT fit.

 

[LOLBELL]

If it’s a .430 bullet, throats need to be .4305 and bore should be .4295 for best fit. If the throats are tight it’s just going to swage them down as it passes through and make it even harder to seal off. After that hardness and pressure comes into play. I’ll agree with Ark Paul about the bevel based bullets, they are very hard to work with. A flat based bullet works much better. You might push’em hard enough to seal off,IDK

 

[Charlie98]

I'd go through the work of slugging my barrel...but I don't cast and don'e have plans to cast anytime soon. With Hi-Tek bullets being affordable, I don't see the need for it at the moment (Yes, I fully understand that's a bullheaded statement).

No, I got you... I don't cast, have zero interest in doing it, and I know I never will, but I shoot a lot of cast... both rifle and pistol... and I've had 2 different Ruger revolvers show me who's boss as far as cast bullet sizing... and mismatched cylinder throats, and a torque bulge in the barrel. It might pay in the long run to have at least the cylinders checked.

If you are just trying to burn those bullets up... I guess run them as hard as you can, it seems like that's the only thing that gives you good accuracy. Bevel-base bullets aren't the best design... they solve a lot of problems in both manufacture and assembly (seating, for example) but, yes, they are not always the best choice... ballistically speaking.

 

[Hanshi]

If you are loading hard cast commercial bullets then yes, you get leading. The bases of these hard bullets don't expand to fill the forcing cone and you end up with lead soldered to the fc and bore. A gas check design will mostly prevent this as will cast bullets that are a bit "softer".

 

[Slamfire]

I would dump the Unique and AA #7 for magnum loads. I have fired thousands of rounds of a 240 L 8.5 grains Unique in a 44 Magnum case, and that was just at 1000 fps and I have no notes about leading. I don't want to push Unique to magnum velocity levels.

You know, except for H110, try cutting your 2400 loads. Try 18, or 19 grains and see if that reduces your leading. You can't cut W296/H110, the manufacturer warns not to. I have found that oiling my 45 ACP rounds just at the juncture of case and bullet reduced leading in my 45 ACP's to nothing. One patch down the tube after a Bullseye match and the barrel was bright. I am getting to the opinion that if you can push enough lubricant down the barrel, you can greatly reduce leading. I have tried dipping revolver bullets in grease, I recall it did eliminate leading, but it was messy as heck. Grease blown out of a revolver cylinder goes everywhere. I have not tried dipping bullets in melted beeswax, that might be less messy.

But, with conventional cast bullets (BHM 13) with conventional lubes, I always had some leading with magnum calibers. Leading reduced when I reduced bullet speeds, and if you really want less leading, I think that is the way to go.

 

[Typetwelve]

I thought I'd update this as well as thanking you all for the advice.

Focusing on those Summers projectiles, the ALOX did the trick. I won't say I'm the largest fan of the stuff, but it did work.

I ran those ALOX coated projectiles over some hotter loads of 2400 and H110, none leaded. I was running them at mid 1400 to high 1500 fps range. Besides the funny smell, they all performed just fine.

I will say that I did get the uncoated projectiles to almost completely stop leading but I had to spit them out at over 1500 fps via a hot load of H110 to do it and I really don't want to do that moving forward.

 

[LOLBELL]

Glad to here it worked out