.44 Magnum Self Defense Loads for a S&W M-29

[Paints]

re: overpenetration

Over penetration is a reality to be taken into consideration, with whatever gun one is using.

While I do not argue that it is something to consider, I believe it is a minor issue compared to missed shots! It seems that in the typical police shooting 80% of the rounds fired do not even hit the intended target. (What was that recent NYC shooting, 53 rounds fired, only one hit the intended target, and several more hit unintended targets). Over penetration is a minor concern compared to shots that miss entirely and go zinging along at full velocity.

Ken

 

[Charles S]

While I do not argue that it is something to consider, I believe it is a minor issue compared to missed shots! It seems that in the typical police shooting 80% of the rounds fired do not even hit the intended target.

I agree, I think we as a whole put way too much emphasis on over penetration. It is something to consider, but not something that would keep me from choosing a specific round.

In full house 44 magnums, were that my loading of choice I would choose Federal Hydrashock or the Speer or Georgia Arms Gold Dot loadings.

I do not use the 44 mag as a primary defense gun, it, for me, is a hunting gun that would get pressed into a defense application as needed.

 

[Combat Controller]

When in the country (out in the woods and in and out of town) I usually carry a .44 mag, as I may run in to a Bruin, as they like to eat from my folks orchard and drink from the creek at dawn and dusk. This is the time when we usually walk the property... I prefer to not have to switch guns if I don;t have to so I usually swap out the penetrator 300 gr rounds for Speer 270 GDSP for social work. I have clocked them at 1274 fps in my 29-2 and quite close to that in my Tracker. I have been mighty pleased with the Speer, and I handload most of my other stuff.

 

[steveracer]

I would load specials, myself.

But really only because I already have permanent hearing damage. Other than that, Mag loads in a carry gun are really pretty amazing. Many white tail have fallen in my mom's town to Gold Dot at around 1100 FPS. Not a bad round at all.
Now, the overpenetration thing: am I the only shooter in the USA who's totally sick to death of Ayoob? I get it, he's been around the block. But in this day and age so have MANY cops, many of whom think his "wisdom" is outdated. Every time I see the word "Ayoob" in a post, I shut off my normally acute reading ability, and only assume the worst. No offense intended here, of course, just my observation.
steve

 

[Diamondback]

Anthony asks :

What are the best antipersonnel Magnum loads to consider for my new revolver when carrying it on the street?

Please note I am looking for some nice warm Magnum loads with well designed bullets for the job. Not a lightly loaded Magnum or .44 Special loading I could easily match in my Colt Lightweight Commander or Glock 30.

Thanks for the help.

Anthony says:

Actually many of the better designed hollowpoints in the 180 to 210-grain range penetrate in the 12 to 15-inch range when driven to high velocities based on the research I have done.

Anthony also says :

The Remington 240-grain SJHP wreaked havoc on a rapist shot by a rather petite woman down in Florida in one of Massad Ayoob's more famous "Ayoob Files" installments.

The Federal 240-grain Hydra-Shok is suggested by Federal for self defense purposes in their literature. I've attached a photo of its gelatin performance from Brass Fletcher's website.

and he says:

Over the years I have carried and fired a range of pistols and revolvers in a variety of calibers. Further, I have researched the terminal ballistics of many of the popular and not so popular calibers through a variety of sources...this includes the full gamut of ballistic gelatin, street results, hunting, and conversations with other shooters.

......Acutually, I fail to see why you have asked this question in the first place when you seem to already have the answer you are looking for. To me, it appears you just want to ANNOUNCE your decision to use a .44 Mag for CCW and then defend your position. You seem to have your valid reasons.......you're free to pick your weapon and load of choice. If you can handle the recoil, are confident that you have the ability to recover and get back on target quickly afer each round, and have no concerns of over-penetration, who are we to question your decision ? Best of luck with your new revolver...it's a classic.

From Tactial Forums:

We recently initiated a test of .44 Magnum loads to determine the best general purpose load to be used in both revolvers and carbines for self-defense, field use, and hunting. The following loads were fired out of a 5” barrel S&W 629 revolver and 16” barrel Marlin 1894P carbine:
Federal 180 gr JHP (C44B)
Federal 240 gr JHP (C44A)
Federal 240 gr JHP Hydrashok (P44HS1)
Federal 300 gr LWC Cast Core (P44E)
Hornady 180 gr JHP XTP (9081)
Hornady 240 gr JHP XTP (9085)
Hornady 300 gr JHP XTP (9088)
Remington 180 gr JHP (R44MG5)
Remington 275 gr JHP Core-Lokt (RH44MGA)
Speer 270 gr JSP Gold Dot (23968)
Winchester 210 gr JHP Silver Tip (X44MS)
Winchrester 250 gr JHP Partition Gold (S44MP)

The load with the clearly SUPERIOR performance in both the handgun and carbine was the Hornady 300 gr XTP, with 20+ inches of penetration, consistent expansion in excess of 0.70” and superb weight retention. Unfortunately, I do not currently have time to type out the complete results, but here are a few random comments--the Hornady 240 gr and 180 gr loadings also performed well, the Remington 275 gr Core-Lokt was a good overall performer, the Remington 180 gr and Winchester 210 gr Silvertip loads had excessive muzzle flash, the Hydrashok fragmented badly, the Silvertip did well in the revolver and not the carbine, the Gold Dot did well in the carbine and not the revolver, the Cast Core has VERY deep penetration, but no expansion,

Bottom line—BEST overall .44 Magnum load is the Hornady 300 gr XTP.

- Regards

 

[ARTiger]

Given the criteria, here is what I would choose. . .


Winchester Supreme
44 Remington Magnum
250 gr. Supreme® Partition Gold®

Description: Massive Energy Deposit, Accurate, Optimum Penetration, Consistent Expansion

Bullet features include:
Proven Partition Technology
Consistent, Dramatic Bullet Expansion
Maximum Weight Retention

1230FPS / 840ME

 

[Anthony]

Diamondback,

No, I have not made a final decision on anything, but I do have a strong leaning towards certain loads.

When it comes to training with firearms I have no ego to bruise or inflate. It is something I take very seriously and never take lightly. I have studied the terminal ballistics of the .44 Magnum, but have yet to actually carry one. I have carried the .41 Magnum for many years, but wanted to catch up on the latest innovations in .44 Magnum ammunition before actually carrying the latter for any serious social purposes. Further, I love to learn everything I can about things that interest me. Knowledge is power and there is so much collective experience to draw from here on THR that I value it very highly.

The wise man learns from the experience of others and thereby avoids their mistakes. If I come away from this discussion with only a reinforcement of my original beliefs all the better. Confidence in one's carry gun is a beautiful thing to have in one's toolbox.

Thank you for reposting the information from tactical forums.

 

[vanilla_gorilla]

From Tactial Forums:

We recently initiated a test of .44 Magnum loads to determine the best general purpose load to be used in both revolvers and carbines for self-defense, field use, and hunting. The following loads were fired out of a 5” barrel S&W 629 revolver and 16” barrel Marlin 1894P carbine:
Federal 180 gr JHP (C44B)
Federal 240 gr JHP (C44A)
Federal 240 gr JHP Hydrashok (P44HS1)
Federal 300 gr LWC Cast Core (P44E)
Hornady 180 gr JHP XTP (9081)
Hornady 240 gr JHP XTP (9085)
Hornady 300 gr JHP XTP (9088)
Remington 180 gr JHP (R44MG5)
Remington 275 gr JHP Core-Lokt (RH44MGA)
Speer 270 gr JSP Gold Dot (23968)
Winchester 210 gr JHP Silver Tip (X44MS)
Winchrester 250 gr JHP Partition Gold (S44MP)

The load with the clearly SUPERIOR performance in both the handgun and carbine was the Hornady 300 gr XTP, with 20+ inches of penetration, consistent expansion in excess of 0.70” and superb weight retention. Unfortunately, I do not currently have time to type out the complete results, but here are a few random comments--the Hornady 240 gr and 180 gr loadings also performed well, the Remington 275 gr Core-Lokt was a good overall performer, the Remington 180 gr and Winchester 210 gr Silvertip loads had excessive muzzle flash, the Hydrashok fragmented badly, the Silvertip did well in the revolver and not the carbine, the Gold Dot did well in the carbine and not the revolver, the Cast Core has VERY deep penetration, but no expansion,

Bottom line—BEST overall .44 Magnum load is the Hornady 300 gr XTP.

Well, then. Didn't see that one coming...

 

[Brasso]

I find this quite humorous. Last time I took physics, energy is defined as the ability to do work. If a particular load makes a bigger, deeper hole than another load, it really doesn't matter whether it over penetrates or not. It will have in fact done more work, thus expanded more energy destroying tissue. The fact that a 125gr doesn't exit doesn't mean it did more damage. It just means there was more heat and noise.

 

[grendelbane]

I think it is a shame that the Model 58 has no good CQB loads made for it these days. Plenty of good hunting loads, but nothing reasonable for CCW.

I also find it strange that people think that a .44 Spl fired from a .44 Magnum has the power of a .44 Magnum.:banghead:

Hint! It is the cartridge that determines bullet weight and velocity, the barrel length of the gun has some influence, but a short barreled .44 Magnum firing 200 grain bullets is still going to be more powerful than a long barreled .44 Special firing 200 grain bullets.

Amazing to me how many people simply do not understand this.

 

[Mr. Beretta]

Cocked & Locked

You must tell me about your fixed sight 44mag. New gun? Custom ? TIA.

 

[SRD]

I think for self defence these rounds should work. Go to the last one on the page. http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp im pretty sure thats a one stop hit anywhere you get hit.

 

[Nightcrawler]

The only reason Hammerheads are loaded that hot is for penetrating deep on thick-skinned, muscular game.

A JHP is a better choice for a smaller target. It'll make a bigger permanent wound cavity and the super-deep penetration isn't necessary. I think the larger wound cavity would be more useful than the higher momentum/kinetic energy of the Garrett load.

 

[Anthony]

I agree with you Nightcrawler.

I am sold on the larger temporary stretch cavities that the .41 and .44 Magnums generate compared to their autopistol counterparts. Just looks at the results of some of Marshall's gelatin testing and then compare them to any autopistol cartridge.

You'll see what I mean.

 

[broknprism]

Speer 200 Gr Short Barrel in Snub 629

If anyone is still following this thread, I'd like to ask whether there is any experience in this group with Speer's 'Short Barrel' .44 magnum -- a 200 gr JHP. I'm going to try it anyway, but am new to it and would like informed opinions.

 

[Anthony]

Speer 200-grain "Short Barrel" JHP

broknprism,

I just finished firing a wide range of loads through my new S&W M-29 (4-inch barrel) this past weekend and this was one of them.

It is a very powerful and well mannered load with excellent recoil control and flash qualities for a .44 Magnum. From 7 to 10-yards I had no trouble cutting a ragged hole in the target with this load.

I was very impressed.

 

[cmidkiff]

Interesting thread...

I have been using a 240g Winchester JSP over 19g 2400, with a Win large pistol primer from my 6" 29-2... Not a real hot load, but still let's you know you're shooting a .44 magnum. Doesn't leave the gun as filthy as some that I've tried.

No, I don't carry that load (or that revolver). It's a great range round though.

 

[jeff-10]

Although I have a 6 incher (and a 20 incher for that matter) that I obviously don't CCW I keep a few boxes of these handy. Just in case.

 

[Nightcrawler]

I really want to try some of those Hydra-Shocks. .44 ammo is hard to find around here, though. The bulk of it is JSP hunting stuff.

 

[Anthony]

Federal 240-grain Hydra-Shoks

Nightcrawler,

I fired a couple of cylinderfuls (new word) of the Hydra-Shok and found it quite accurate and very pleasant to shoot compared to some of the other more hotly loaded 240-grain JHP loads I brought to the range.

If you prefer a heavier load in this caliber I would suggest you try it. The gelatin results for the load are shown on one of the earlier pages of this thread and it was impressive indeed.

 

[Geister]

Glad for this thread

I'm glad you started this thread, Anthony. I'm looking into getting a Taurus .44 Magnum as a CCW.

I have a .357 Magnum and I was going to get another one as a CCW, but a .357 might just be a little too loud. I think I would prefer a quieter, subsonic round for defense.

When I really got into looking at handloads for the .44 Magnum, I realized that a .44 Magnum can be loaded with inexpensive lead bullets and still have performance surpassing the .357 and the .45 ACP. I can practice with it for the same cost or even cheaper than the .357. I can't really use lead bullets for the .357 without sacrificing a lot of performance.

Now I can reload a 240 grain bullet to about 1,100 FPS and 644 ft/lbs, but I wonder if there's a factory .44 Magnum load around that. A factory load with a little more ommph than a .44 Special.

The only problems with the Taurus Tracker .44 Magnum is that it's ported and only holds five rounds, but a Kel-Tec P11 is small enough and powerful enough to make a good back-up weapon.

What kind of IWB holsters do you all recommend?

 

[sthomper]

"but thats not the point of this discussion"...the term self defense is in the title


you could use an exploding gas tank for defense and hurt lots of people. seems a valid isue to bring up as far as collaterl damage is concerned.

my grandpa goofed one day ( at least i think he goofed) by trying to outdraw a cowboy on tv...he shot a 45colt thru a tv - thru a sheet rock wall - and thru part of a kitchen stove.....a 44 mag may not be the best gun in an apt building with thin wall if a missed shot occurred. a 38 a might be appropriate.

 

[230therapy]

Take a look at 44 Special or 44 Magnum loaded down to 900-950 FPS.

 

[sthomper]

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

this link (dont know if the info is true) says there is a 200g 44 (mag?) cal that at the muzzle , travels at 1075 fps and has 513 ftlb of ke.

if other info i have read is true that seems like it could be nearly a 1/2 hole at at about the same energy as a 357 (a third-ish of an inch hole) mag....but considerably less than many other 44 mags.

and i guess less recoil/more control.

 

[sthomper]

so...overpenetration as far as missed shots could be a concern. especially depening on the type of dwelling you find your self in or near.