44 Remington 1858 Pietta

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celem

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I was reading an old post where someone with a Uberti 1858 Remington said "My actual cast diameter was .452" and my chambers are .450". I just measured mine with a digital micrometer and my cylinder and barrel measure .444

Is the Pietta really smaller bored than the Uberti? Anyone else measured their cylinder and bores?
 
So your telling me the groove depth is .008. That's pretty deep for a pistol
shooting a bare ball. What size ball do you use, .448 or mebby .450. Most
revolvers run about .004-.005 deep. Just seems odd. My old Pietta and
Euroarms measure .450 chamber dia. and .450 groove dia. Bore dia is .442.
 
Pietta 1858 Remington

Well, I've mic'd it several times - but I tried again - it is hard to be sure that the micrometer is atop a land on each side. I still come up with .428 between the lands. Granted, my digital micrometer is a cheap Chinese model but it has measured true on every previous occasion.

Re - what am I shooting - I just purchased this pistol and have not yet shot it. I did get some Hornady .454 round balls since that was Pietta's recommended size but I was surprised when I measured the cylinder chambers and found them to be .444 and then read that other's measured at .450. With a .444 chamber and bore .454 balls seem too large to me seems like .451 would be more appropriate.

I also surprised to see such variation among the reproductions given that they are all supposedly copying the same pistol.
 
Best way to measure yours is to push a 457 ball made to be used in a Ruger
Down the barrel and measure that. You can measure the groove dia and bore
dia and groove depth this way. Also push a ball into the chamber about half
Way down, take out the nipple and using a brass punch or piece of wood push
The ball back out and measure it. This will give you a more accurate measurement of the chamber.
When I say push it thru, you might have to tap it using a small hammer or equivalent .
 
You are not going to get a accurate measurment like that because a pietta has a 7 groove(odd number) barrel.
 
Must measure like this. Or go no go gage if you have them.

Find difference between measurement 1 and 2. This equals the groove depth.
Then subtract that from measurement 3 to find bore dia.

Then add 2 times the groove depth to the bore dia. to find groove dia.

bore measure.jpg
 
The guns are probably pretty close to the same. The difference is more likely to be peoples measuring.
 
Bore measurement

I'll have to get a wooden dowel to push the ball - I have none available. I need some anyway because I intend to make some paper cartridges. I'll report back later.

I certainly can agree with TheRodDoc's comment "The difference is more likely to be peoples measuring." Doing inside measurements with the micrometer is difficult as alignment of the calipers affects the reading greatly on the inside measurements. Doing outside measurements on a "pushed through" ball will be easier as alignment is less of an issue.

I feel fairly good about the accuracy of the chamber measurements in the cylinder being .444. I removed the cylinder and measured each chamber. I still wonder about the small size versus the .454 ball recommended by Pietta.
 
I worked in a tool & die shop for 20 yrs. Main job was to measure accurate
with all kinds of measuring tools includig Jones & Lampkin opictial comparator.
I made a livig using my mike and dial calipers.
 
You wont get a good measurment with a calipers on your chambers.If you have the calipers cocked to one side just the slightet on a small round hole like the chamber, it will throw the measurment off a good bit. kwhi said to puch a .457 ball in the chamber with the rammer and then push it back out with a rod through the hole after a nipple is removed.Then measure the diameter and it should be real close, just dont put much pressure on the soft lead. Then do the same with another ball through the barrel. Measure that the way rod doc showed,that is the best way to do a 7 groove slug without special measuring tools.I am almost certain your cylinder bores will be bigger than you have came up with so far.It seems to be common from what others here have found,for the chambers to be undersize especially on many newer guns.Have no good idea what is behind that.Optimal would be for the chambers to be the same as barrel groove dia or several thousandths bigger than the barrel groove.Regardless it seems that most people guns still shoot accurate like that.If you want to get everything you can out of your gun, the best thing would be to ream the chambers out to the correct size though.This should give an increase in velocity too.
 
Seriously, I have to ask, I thought the fun of old style cap n' balls was to have fun. Do I really have to ream the cylinders and do all that stuff or can I just shoot it the way it is?
After all, I don't have a ransom rest to clamp it in and I shake a bit when shooting off hand.:eek:
 
TheRodDoc's diagram is fine for measuring a bore with an odd number of lands & grooves but it doesn't work with a slug - there's no way to take the No. 1 and No. 2 measurements. It will still be necessary to take those from the bore, and the issue with keeping the caliper jaws true with the radius still plays a part.
 
No its not nessesary to do anything to your gun in most cases.Most of them shoot as good or better right out of the box than do centerfire revolvers. Some people just like to tinker and get their guns to do all they can do though.
 
It's easy to obsess over these measurements.
It's more fun to just shoot them.

There, I've finally said something useful.
 
The real info you want to know is if the cylinder is smaller than the bore. If so (which is common) you swage the ball down to less than bore diameter when loading, and then you have a ball that's too small to get good rifling engraving for good accuracy. The actual dimensions are less relevent than the comparison.

I ream my Uberti cylinders with a hand reamer to make sure that the cylinders are slightly larger than the bore. Accuracy improves considerably when this is done.

Slugging the BBL and cylinder with soft lead balls and then using a micrometer to measure the resulting slugs is the way to go.


Willie

.
 
Jaymo, most of them shoot very well right out of the box regardless of how they measure out. Like i said, some of us just like to tinker with them and try to get all we can from the gun.Its just another good excuse to play with your gun when you cant be out shooting. Now spending the time to slick one up on the inside is well worth the small amount of time it takes to do it.One you cycle onethat has been slicked up and tuned you will see what i mean.It often turns a gun that feels like a novelty into one that feels as smooth as a colt python.
 
the cylinder is smaller than the bore...(which is common)
Click to expand...
Assuming you meant chamber, smaller than the bore???
I understand the bore to be the land-to-land diameter; if that's what you meant I've never seen a c&b revolver with chambers smaller in diameter than the land-to-land distance. Chambers smaller in diameter than the groove-to-groove diameter are common, however.

In either case, it's not a condition that is conducive to good accuracy.
 
Slugging the BBL and cylinder with soft lead balls and then using a micrometer to measure the resulting slugs is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Not Really. Unless you have a mic with a special narrow anvil to measure the 7 groove slug, you would not get an accurate measurment. Even then you will still have to Measure as I posted in the drawing.

The most accurate method to measure the bore is a GO - NO GO gage.

mic slug.jpg
 
Mic'd the cylinder bore

Today I seated a ball in my Pietta 1958 Remington 44 cylinder, removed the nipple and then push the ball back out. My micrometer shows the cylinder bore diameter as .448 when measuring across the outside of the ball at the shiny, flattened ring.

This still seems a bit small to me. I have not yet pushed a ball through the barrel.
 
That's about right. Your groove in the barrel should be .450 so your only .002
undersize. Upon firing the ball probably will bump up to .450 and shoot just fine. Not to worry.
 
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