.44 Russian Loads

[Sam1911]

Hi!

I'm about to make the switch from .44 Special to .44 Russian in my 629 for IDPA. I have a load I really like with Trail Boss under a 200 gr. LRN that easily makes the upper power floor and just fills the case.

Obviously, I'm not going to be able to stuff enough TB into a Russian case to get 825 fps. So I need to develop another load.

What do you all like? I'm thinking of just trying my .45 ACP load of American Select. That would simplify things greatly, as I'd have the same bullet weight and maybe the charge could work out the same and I'd never have to change the powder measure again. But it's kind of unlikely to work quite that smoothly.
Of course, there are no published loads for .44 Russian and Am. Sel. -- but it HAS to be close to the .45 load, I'm guessing.

But, maybe there are some reasons to go with another powder. What works well for you guys?

Again, we're aiming for getting a 200 gr. lead bullet moving 825-850 fps out of a 4" barreled 629.

Thanks!

-Sam

 

[Walkalong]

American Select will work well. I also like 700X for that application. (My choice) Clays should work well, but I have not tried it in .44 Russian cases as of yet. Red Dot is another to try.

I can check data when I get home.

 

[Slamfire]

I don’t understand the advantage of 44 Russian cases, why not try 44 Spl cases and Unique?

I have shot lots of loads in my 44 Specials, and shot 205 grain bullets that would likely clock just at 800 fps in a 4 inch barrel.

Bullseye gave me very little recoil in my M24.

Taurus M431 3" Barrel
			
205 gr LSWC 6.0 grs Unique  thrown, Midway Brass WLP		
11-Dec-04 T = 54 °F
					
Ave Vel =	789.6				
Std Dev =	27.18		
ES =	96.54			
Low = 	724.1				
High = 	820.6				
N =	30				
Accurate, shoots point of aim
Some leading

USFA SAA 5.5” barrel

205 gr LSWC 6.0 grs Unique  thrown, mixed Fed & Midway Brass WLP	
11-Dec-04 T = 54 °F
					
Ave Vel =	845.6				
Std Dev =	22.58			
ES =	101.6				
Low = 	787.4				
High = 	889.1				
N =	29				
			

6.5" M24 				
					
205 gr LSWC 4.5 grs Bullseye CCI 500  W/W cases		
15-Nov-98	T = 55°F				


Ave Vel =	765				
Std Dev =	16				
ES =	43				
Low = 	743				
High = 	786				
N=6

2000 posts and still have nothing to say!

 

[calaverasslim]

44 Colt

Personally, I love the 44 special round, however as a happy medium, why not gi to the 44 Colt round. Same bullet, same gun but more powder and more velocity.

 

[Landric]

Sam, I'm working on the same thing. I'm using 240 grain bullets, which is my preference. I just loaded a small batch using Trail Boss and a small batch with Titegroup on my new LCT. I'm going to the range next weekend with the chrono to see how they do. I'm looking for 690 fps out of my 4" 21-4, which just makes major.

Once I get the load selected, I'm going to send the cylinder off for a moon-clip conversion and use the gun to shoot ESR with the .44 Russian loads, and perhaps SSR from time to time without the clips.

Let me know how your testing goes, and I'll do the same.

 

[Sunray]

There's 200 grain cast data on Alliant's site. Under 'Cowboy Action' loads.
Also on Hodgdon's site. Definitely not 825 fps though. That velocity is from a max load of Bullseye. Hodgdon 'Universal' gives that kind of velocity with a cast 200 grain bullet without going near max, though.

 

[Walkalong]

I don’t understand the advantage of 44 Russian cases, why not try 44 Spl cases

A good point.

I tried Russian cases to hopefully get better ES & SD numbers as well as cleaner cases with light loads. It worked fine, but I have settled on just using .44 Spl brass. Nothing wrong with using Russian cases, just not a big advantage and with Spl cases there is no scrubbing the fouling out of chambers due to the short Russian brass in .44 Spl chambers. Same reason I download .357 brass instead of shooting .38's in my magnums, and the same reason I don't shoot .44 Spl in .44 Mag guns.

 

[Landric]

I'm using the .44 Russian brass because its OAL is very close to that of the .45ACP and therefore moon clip carriers are available that will fit it. The shorter brass should also make reloads easier.

Besides, any excuse to play around with a different cartridge.

 

[Sam1911]

Landric's on the right track.

In the action pistol sports reloads are a big time (and thus SCORE) killer. A shorter case gets more positively ejected when you smack the ejector rod and should be easier to insert, as well. If you make the conversion to using moon clips it's all the more better!

I've been using .44 Spcs. for the last year. They're great. But switching to .44 Russian and then getting the cylinder cut for moon clips should make my 629 every bit as fast as a 625. Loaded right, .44 Russian should be almost exactly the same round as a .45 ACP. A perfect ESR gun that also can shoot full-house .44 mags when I want to. What's not to love?

I started using Trail Boss in the Special cases because the charge weight needed to move my 200 gr. slugs out at 825-850 -- with some powders -- didn't fill half of the available case volume. In fact, I found that with Tightgroup I could charge the case FIVE times and still have room to seat the bullet! As I load LOTS AND LOTS of my practice rounds, I really don't want a combination I could some how screw up that badly and not have some visual cue that I'd muffed it. Trail Boss is perfect for the load I was using as it is very fluffy and fills the case.

But, if I switch to the Russian cases to take advantage of the shorter length & faster reloads, I'll need a powder that fills that (much smaller) case volume.

As I'm shooting all these through a .44 Mag revolver, I have to clean the chambers well anyway before shooting any of the big boys -- so that's not an issue.

The Unique loads look interesting, but with an ES of nearly (or over) 100 fps, I'm not sure I wan to pursue that.

I used to load a lot of Clays for my .45 ACP 200 gr. loads, but I switched to American Select because to make 825 fps, you are loading about 4.3 gr. of Clays which is right at (or just over) a max load. Am. Sel. makes 825 without hitting the top of the safe load data.

I do appreciate the advice! Thanks all!

-Sam

 

[Sam1911]

Update

So, finally, I have my brass and my powder and a few rounds loaded.

I'm using Starline brass, Betterbullets.com 200 gr. LRNFPs, Fed 150 primers, and Titegroup powder.

I've got 20 each of 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, and 4.8 gr. The object is to hit 825-875 fps out of my 4" 629.

I'll test them out on Thursday and report how it goes.

And, by the way, in my HKS speedloaders, when I bring the loader up to the cylinder, the bullets enter the chambers down to maybe 0.05" above the case mouths before the loader bottoms against the center pin. So far, testing at home, I've had no trouble dropping those loaded roungs right into the chambers. The RN bullets make it possible, but I have a feeling that SWCs would dribble out all over the place. These things are A LOT shorter than a .44 Spc. case! We'll see how it goes. If I can reload with the speedloaders smoothly I'll use the Russian brass. If I can't, I'll have to stick to the Special brass until I get it cut for moon clips.

-Sam

 

[Jim Watson]

If you use speedloaders, you don't have to load so heavy.
Revolver + speedloaders = IDPA SSR.

 

[Landric]

I got the following results with my test loads so far:

180 grain RNFP, 4.7 grains Titegroup, Ave. Velocity 831fps

200 grain RNFP, 4.7 grains Titegroup, Ave. Velocity 805fps

240 grain RNFP, 4.0 grains Titegroup, Ave. Velocity 676fps

240 grain RNFP, 4.2 grains Titegroup, Ave. Velocity 711fps

240 grain RNFP, 3.5 grains Trail Boss, Ave. Velocity 590fps

So far the only one that makes IDPA major is the 240/4.2 combination. The 200/4.7 combination came close, but didn't quite make it. Perhaps a couple extra tenths of a grain would get there.

All the loads were fired in a 4" S&W 21-4.

 

[Sam1911]

If you use speedloaders, you don't have to load so heavy.
Revolver + speedloaders = IDPA SSR.

Oh, I know. But I've found that my leading gets bad if I drop my charges down to SSR levels. I had the chamber throats reamed out to (um, I think it was .434 or whatever they're supposed to be for lead bullets), but I still get much worse leading with light charges. (Obduration issue, if I'm seeing it correctly.)

So I just decided to load to ESR levels for everything and not worry about it. As it is I just shoot ESR and SSR with exactly the same equipment at the moment. Choosing which class to enter as the whim takes me. Not very competative, I know.

Whenever I get the cylinder cut for moon clips, I'll be closer to "normal" in at least one class! Well, as "normal" as a moon-clipped revolver shooting .44 Russian "major" can be! LOL!

-Sam

 

[Sam1911]

I got the following results with my test loads so far:

Wow!

That's great info! Though a lot lower velocity than I was hoping for.

Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester's web site lists Titegroup loads under a 200 bullet as being good up to 4.8 gr. at 960+ fps. That's obviously pretty far off from what you're getting. In fact, about 160 fps slower than whatever test barrel they used.

I suppose I can push things a little, seeing as this is a 629 and not a No. 3. top-break, and their loads are topping out at about 13,000 psi. Seems I'd have a decent margin of safety.

Maybe not the safest thing ever, but I don't think I'm in grave danger with this combo. If I've got to go a whole grain over I won't do it, but if it's just a nudge...

Heck, I have a 1250 fps 200 gr. load that works great out of a .44 Spc. case. It helps to only have ONE .44 revolver around. Wouldn't want to run a cylinder full of those through a Charter arms Bulldog, probably.

-Sam

 

[Landric]

You might well be able to get an extra 20 or 25 fps out of a 1/10th grain increase over my 4.7 load. 825 will get you IDPA major with a 200 grain bullet. The 2/10th increase in my 240 grain load resulted in a 35fps incease.

According to the data I printed out Hodgdon is using a 5" barrel for .44 Russian and a 8" barrel for .44 Special on the data they provide. If you consider that its probably a test barrel without a cylinder gap, its no surprise I am getting significantly lower velocities.

I'm probably going to stick with the 240 grain bullets and 4.2 grains of Titegroup since it makes major, but I am interested to see if it can be done with a 200 grain bullet as well. I too would be willing to go a couple of tenths over max given I am also shooting them in an N-frame, but I'd rather not.

 

[Sam1911]

Results:

Made a special trip out to test my loads. I was a little worried about the chrono in the dim overcast light, but it seemed to work fine.

All loads are Titegroup under a 200 gr. LRNFP in a Starline .44 Russian case, Fed 150 primer.

Fired from a 4" 629.

Two groups of 6 rounds in each test group.

Charge -- Average Vel. -- E.S. -- S.D.
----------------------------------------
4.0 ------- 693 --------- 75 ------ 25
4.2 ------- 740 --------- 29 ------ 12
4.4 ------- 760 --------- 36 ------ 14
4.6 ------- 784 --------- 48 ------ 21
4.8 ------- 822 --------- 21 ------ 8

So I'm almost there. I'll probably go to 5.0, expecting to get about 850 fps, average, and call it good.

Sweet!

-Sam

 

[Landric]

Sam it looks like our results pretty much mirror each other.

 

[zxcvbob]

'Bout 5.0 grains of Bullseye oughtta do it, or 5.5 of Universal.

 

[Sam1911]

Sam it looks like our results pretty much mirror each other.

Yup! That made me feel pretty good about the whole exercise!

Thanks for your info and advice!

-Sam

 

[Sam1911]

'Bout 5.0 grains of Bullseye oughtta do it, or 5.5 of Universal.

Just looked them up and you're right on! Good to know if I ever have trouble locating Titgroup (or decide to not use a load that's 0.2 gr. over the line...).

Thanks!

-Sam