.44 Special "Frontal Area" vs .45 ACP

[MCgunner]

I'll pick a 30 caliber over a .45 any day....if that .30 is a .300Win Mag. Speed kills, or rather, speed makes energy and energy kills. Lessee, which would I rather have if a 1200 lb bear was coming at me, a 300 win mag or a .45 ACP? Hmm.....

That's an exaggeration, of course, but illustrates a point. There's more to terminal ballistics than frontal area. I'll keep my .357 magnum, thanks. I've seen what it can do to flesh vs what a 255 grain .45 at 950 fps can do.

 

[Prosser]

What about 255 grains in .45 at 1150-1350 fps?

 

[mrmeangenes]

At the risk of ticking off quite a few contributors to this thread------

1. If you're going to bring up meplat, please don't compare apples and oranges !
(Compare a "flatpoint" .44 with a "flatpoint" .45 ---not a round nose .45 with a flatpoint .44 !)

2. Please be advised you do NOT need hollowpoint, or softpoint ---or even high velocity ammunition to "do the job".

a. A slight "assymetric" variation in the meplat will- in almost all cases - cause a bullet launched at standard velocity to "go crazy" when it hits flesh;

b. What occurs is something I call "post-impactual tumbling" ';

c. The bullet tries to tunnel straight through, but "skids" on its meplat (nose) and tries to go sideways at the same time-with devastating results !

d. From what I've been able to see, tinkering with the meplat has little or no effect on practical accuracy.

I've established this to my own satisfaction via hundreds of experiments - but - unlike the Great Gun Sages - I suggest you experiment a bit and confirm or disprove my findings.

(Don't get mad: get curious. You might be stunned at what you'll find !)

 

[natman]

I'll pick a 30 caliber over a .45 any day....if that .30 is a .300Win Mag. Speed kills, or rather, speed makes energy and energy kills. Lessee, which would I rather have if a 1200 lb bear was coming at me, a 300 win mag or a .45 ACP? Hmm.....

That's an exaggeration, of course, but illustrates a point. There's more to terminal ballistics than frontal area. I'll keep my .357 magnum, thanks. I've seen what it can do to flesh vs what a 255 grain .45 at 950 fps can do.

There certainly is more to ballistics that frontal area. The point I tried to make is that when comparing two different calibers, the important factor as far as terminal ballistics goes is frontal area, not diameter and that because of the math involved, frontal area increases faster than you might think. That's all.

I did NOT mean to imply in any way, shape or form that frontal area was the only important factor, that the 45 ACP was in all ways superior to to the 44 Special solely because of its greater frontal area or any of the other musings that have sprung up.

Compare frontal area, not diameter. Frontal area grows quickly with small changes in diameter. Those are the points I wanted to make. Period.

-----------

That said, frontal area does make a difference. A 45 grain 223 FMJ and a 405 grain 45-70 soft point have virtually the same energy, yet somewhat different terminal ballistics.

 

[mavracer]

Speed kills, or rather, speed makes energy and energy kills.

so obviously you'd rather have a 220 swift than a 45/70 for that charging bear.:banghead:
Energy alone is a very poor way to judge, as energy without enough momentum will not allow said energy to be applied to vitals.

The 357 works well because it has great energy AND enough momentum.

PS where do you find a IWB holster for a 300WM and what belt do you use to keep it from pulling your pants down?

 

[Scipio Africanus]

I scanned this thread and I am not sure any one has answered your question fully, they may have and I may have missed it, so here goes:
Meplats and bullet design aside, frontal area is another way of saying area of a circle.

Mathematically, here is the formula as I remember it:

Area = pi (3.14)x radius squared (sorry my keyboard does not have all the appropriate symbols)

Hence:
3.14x.451x.451= .64 (rounded)
3.14x.429x.429= .58 (rounded)
So 10% is the approximate difference in he area of a circle measuring .451 vs .429.

Like others have said, and I am in full agreement, if you wanna use a .44 special/Magnum do it! Practice a bunch, get really good and have fun.
If you wanna use a .45 ACP, do it! Practice alot, get really good and have fun.
Your target will not know the difference.

 

[Prosser]

Radius is HALF the diameter.
.2145X.2145=.460X.3.14=.14447"sq in.
.45 .16037 Sq in"
.510 .20418 sq in

Doesn't really do a good job of quantifying observed effects.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The most effective possible shape for a non-expanding bullet of any caliber is a full diamiter cylinder. The only other variable factors are weight and velocity.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I have a Ruger 3 3/4" "Sheriff's" model .44 Special that I expect, with the "Skeeter Skelton" load of 250gr SWC bullet (with a somewhat flat and wide "meplat", or flat area on the nose of the bullet) at 900fps, to be superior to almost ALL .45ACP loadings for wound, shock, knockdown, etc. It may not be, but it has these things going for it: superior mass/penetration, good velocity, flat/ hard impact bullet design, and a reputation for accuracy and good results on animal targets. Hard to do better than that.

 

[Kosh75287]

ANY deficit that the .44 Spl. might suffer from a slightly smaller front end can be more than compensated for by elevating velocity. The only deficit I see a .44 Spl having vs. a .45 A.C.P. is reload time and (as velocities get very high) control.

 

[Prosser]

My .45 Super is loaded with Buffalobore 255 grain LFN's, at 1050 fps.
Along with 230 grain Speer HP's at 1100 fps. I'll take your .44 Special, an take it.

Still, I like the direction your going, and thinking, SDM.

 

[mavracer]

My .45 Super is loaded with Buffalobore 255 grain LFN's, at 1050 fps.
Along with 230 grain Speer HP's at 1100 fps. I'll take your .44 Special, an take it.

Yea for you. But what does that have to do with 44 special and 45 acp?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

The .45 Super is an awesome round, but might shorten the life of your 1911 frame, as does the 10mm. I would expect a Ruger .44 special revolver to hold up longer than a .45 Super, so that has to be considered, too. I guess when you get one thing, you have to give up another (power, knockdown, size, weight, longevity, etc).

 

[R.W.Dale]

My .45 Super is loaded with Buffalobore 255 grain LFN's, at 1050 fps.
Along with 230 grain Speer HP's at 1100 fps. I'll take your .44 Special, an take it.

Still, I like the direction your going, and thinking, SDM.

My 44 Taurus total titanium weighs 18 oz. How much does your super weigh?

Penn bullets makes a 185g full wadcutter for 44 that I intend to buy and test a bunch of.