44 super

[murf]

proposal: get ruger, s&w, winchester, hornady, federal, starline, et al, to create the 44 super (and 45 super) cartridge.

description: 44 super - the 44 special cartridge with a "44 super" headstamp and with a saami approved max avg pressure (map) of 25-27kpsi. 45 super - the 45 colt (long colt) cartridge with a "45 super" headstamp and with a saami approved map of 23-25kpsi.

reasons:

1) to set the limit of a medium, "momma bear", load for 44 caliber revolvers (44 special and 44 magnum being the baby bear and papa bear respectively).

2) same as #1 in regard to the 45 caliber revolvers using the 45 long colt and 454 casull for the bears.

3) make a new cartridge sellable to the customer, profitable to the industry, occupy the "more powerful round in a small 44 and 45 cal. revolver" market.

discussion:

s&w could rechamber the model 69 for 44 super and eliminate the problems with firing full house magnums in a short, light revolver. they could reissue the model 25 as a duel purpose 45acp/45 super gun (like ruger recently did with the redhawk).

what do you think of my proposal? i'd like to hear your opinions and ideas.

murf

p.s. mods, could you leave this op in the handloading section for a while. would like to get opinions on the "nervousness" aspect of reloading above saami specs. thx

 

[murf]

more discussion:

ruger could restamp the barrel of their new 45 cal convertible redhawk "45acp/45super". if a firearm can handle 45acp +p pressures, it can surely handle 23-25k pressure of a 45 super.

hornady could market a 240 grain xtp load in 44 super, a 250 grain xtp load in 45 super. they could call it the "deer slayer" load, or some such.

case manufacturers will only have to change the head stamp of already existing cases for both supers. current design will handle both pressure increases.

saami could use the old "keith" load for its 44 super reference ammo and the brian pearce "bear load" for its 45 super reference ammo. keith load: 255 gn lswc @ 1200 fps muzzle velocity. pearce bear load: 280 gn lswc @ 1050 fps muzzle velocity.

a lot of people are nervous about running 250 and 300 grain bullets out the barrel of 44 special handguns at 1000 - 1200 fps. "44 super" on the side of the barrel and saami approved "44 super" ammo would go a long way in eliminating nervousness in cases like this. ref: thr thread title "nm blackhawk 44 special and 310 cast bullets..?".

the idea for the "super" caliber came from the 38acp round being too weak to fight the bad guys back in the early nineteen thirties. this era spawned the 38 super, same case and a much more powerful round.

murf

 

[Sunray]

25-27k psi. is less than or equal to .44 Mag 240 grain plus cast bullet loads.
The .45 Super already exists. Also at higher pressures than 23-25k psi.

 

[stoky]

.................but it isn't shorter
Did Dan Wesson drop the .445 SuperMag when CZ ate em

 

[murf]

sunray,

i think the 45 super, based on the acp cartridge, is still a wildcat. maybe call it the 45 super revolver, or something. i see too many +p versions of cartridges out there.

murf