444 Marlin, Jacketed bullets.....and Unique?

[BigBore44]

Hey guys and gals,
I'll preface my question with a little background to avoid "get a manual" replies. I load for several rounds. 9mm, 38spl/357mag (pistol and rifle), 44spl/mag (pistol and rifle), 8mm Mauser, .308, .270, 30-06, 444 Marlin, 45-70. I load cast, plated, and jacketed. Don't know everything. Will never pretend to. I have Speer, Sierra, Hornady, and Lyman reloading manuals. And bullets that run the gammet for/from the makers of all my manuals.

I have a fair amount of hogs in my neck of the woods and while I love full house loads for my 44mag, 444,and my 45-70, sometimes they just aren't needed (25-50 yds) So I'll just cut to the chase....

Is there anyone on here that has load data for 240gr or 300gr Sierra or Hornady jacketed bullets (mainly XTP) for reduced loads using Unique powder in a 444 Marlin? I'm only looking for 1100-1300fps. I know I can down load my 44mag rifle to that and just use that rifle. But I am really trying to get some loads for my 444 also so when I take either my young nephews, or my friends kids hunting who don't have rifles, one can use my 1894 and the other my 444S and not have their shoulders slammed or get "scoped" from the recoil.

I contacted Alliant but their reply said they had no "tested data for my parameters". So if anyone has any personal data for this combo or has any other powder suggestions for reduced loads (1100-1300fps) with those weight bullets, I'm open to suggestions. But I would really like to stay with Unique if possible.

 

[Reloadron]

I would not go with Unique. I would try a powder like H4895 which really lends itself well to reduced loads. I would start with the Hodgdon Load Data Site looking at 240gr JHP and 300gr JHP bullets. Give this a read for starters, HODGDON® H4895® REDUCED RIFLE LOADS.

While I have not tried reduced loads in 444 Marlin I would think H4895 would be a good choice. I normally shoot the 240 grain XTP in 444 Marlin.

Ron

 

[BigBore44]

Thanks Reloadron,
That is a potential player for me. With a 300gr bullet, that makes my minimum charge with the 60% rule, 30gr and 31.8gr for a 240gr bullet. Is there a way for me to find out what kind of velocity I'll be looking at with loads like that without a chronograph?

 

[Reloadron]

The downside is to really know what you have you need to beg, borrow or steal a chronograph. Even running full loads it is hard to tell. My own observation is my own loads never seem to match the loading manual, even when I use the same test rifle they did. I do know that H4895 works well for what we call "reduced loads". I would not start at the very bottom but up a little and a chronograph would be a big plus. I know of no way to guesstimate.

Ron

 

[BigBore44]

Ok. I didn't know if there was a calculator app or maybe a website that you could plug in the info and it spits out a guesstimate. I know temp, humidity, relativity to sea level, bore diameter, and other factors would play a role. But I can buy a chronograph. They aren't that expensive. Reloading manuals don't really give true "max" loads anyways. Too many people would see a true max load of 52.5gr and want to try 52.7 or 53.0. Then sue the manufacturer of the reloading manual when their firearm explodes. So they have to make them slightly anemic to protect their company. But thanks for the advice on the powder. I won't use a true minimum 60% load. I'll try 65-70% and check for squibs. Btw, just out of curiosity, what's your load for the 240XTP if you don't mind sharing? Mine is 48.8 of H4198 Starline Brass, and CCI LR 200. It's pretty snappy but nothing like the 42gr of H4198 with the 300XTP. That's a boomer. And I get 1.75-2" groups off my LeadSled DFT @100 yards. I'm getting ready to start some up with IMR 3031. I really like 3031. It meters like oversized logs in an underpowered wood chipper. But it's my go to powder for 308, -06, and 45-70. Accurate and consistent. I'm thinking a start of 46gr and work up. But maybe now I'll have to wait to get the 4895 loads worked out first.

 

[Sport45]

Trail Boss is another powder that is excellent for reduced loads in just about anything.

IMR Instructions Here

 

[BigBore44]

How "clean" is Trail Boss? I have read lots of people love this powder. From what I understand it's often used as a cleaner replacement for BP. But I have no experience with it. All my powders, except Unique, are performance powders: H332, H335, H4198, H4350, RL-22, IMR3031, IMR4831, PowerPistol, VTV N110 and some other.

It appears TrailBoss can't really be overloaded. True?

Also, is TrailBoss ok for jacketed bullets? I already have loads for cast boolits.

 

[RecoilRob]

This article mentions using Unique (15grns under cast 250) which would likely work well with the 240 jacketed. At least it would be safe and you could easily reduce it a bit if wanted. Would be best to fire your loads over the cronograph to verify it's doing what you want.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/anderson/444Outfitter.htm

 

[BigBore44]

When I asked if TailBoss would work with jacketed bullets, I did read the link that stated cast OR jacketed. I was more asking if anyone had actually used it with jacketed bullets and if so, what kind of results did you get?

RecoilRob,
I had read that article. When I try to find answers to my questions, I start with my manuals first. Next I consult powder or bullet manufacturers. My next sources are usually articles by well known writers like Chuck Hawks, Paco Kelly and others. My last resort is firearms forums. And I trust this forum more than any other for general reloading.

I don't know why Unique won't work. But I've been cautioned by a pretty knowledgable loader. The problem I find with lever gun loaders is many (not all) load mainly upper end loads for their hunting loads. And their lighter loads mainly seem to be cast. Im just not of the belief that expanding bullets (especially for the 44mag/444) need full or near full charges to be effective. I'm pretty young still (33) but big bore rifles loaded with big bullets and full house charges aren't that much fun to spend a day at the range with. That's why I bought a LeadSled DFT. And they certainly aren't fun for young shooters. And this is my main reason for this quest.

I know someone here has had the same idea as mine. If I have to experiment on my own I will. Sometimes there just aren't always easy solutions. But I WILL have a load for that 444 with 300 and 240XTP's or Sierra JHC's @ 1100-1300 fps by dear season. I will try Unique, TrailBoss, H4895, Universal, and any other powder I can think of. I have plenty of brass, bullets, powder, and primers. And more than enough determination.

 

[the Black Spot]

I have not used unique yet, but have used blue dot and 2400 with 300 gr cast bullets

 

[Sport45]

I've used Trail Boss for .45 Colt loads and wasn't impressed. Still have most of the (9 oz?) bottle I bought shortly after it came out. It fills the case well but that's about the only advantage I saw. YMMV

I haven't tried it in my .444 or any other rifle.

When my sons were young I used to use reduced loads in 7.7Jap, .375Win, and .30-06. For those I used cast bullets and pistol-level charges of W-231 or Titegroup. The only reduced loads I tried with jacketed bullets used H-4895. While they were consistent on the target, they left a lot of unburnt powder behind.

 

[MEHavey]

Quickload is telling me that 10gr/Unique would give you 12,000psi/1,240fps with a Sierra 240JHC out of a 20" barrel.
i.e, mild black powder cartridge regime.

YMMV of course... but that's what QuickLoad is superb at suggesting as starting point.
Do you have access to a chronograph?

 

[BigBore44]

MEHavey,
No I don't. That's really all I've ever lacked purchasing. I always just load for accuracy. But for the kids, looks like I'm going to have to get one.

 

[steveno]

when I had a 45-70 18 grains of Unique and a 300 grain Remington was one of my favorite loads. it was good for 1,450 fps and 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. using Unique means you have to check every case because it doesn't fill the case up very much. I shot a couple of thousand rounds of this load with no problems

just for what it's worth department

 

[BigBore44]

steveno,
That's good to know. Having a 45-70 myself and more than enough 300gr .458 JSp's, that's another player for the kids to hunt with. My current reduced load for the 45-70 was 15gr Unique and 405gr #1 Buffalo from MBC. Will still punch through an 8" oak at 50 yards and hardly any recoil at all.