44mag loading

[halogrinder]

i dont know if i need help (im beyond help sometimes lol), or just want to post some of this information for others- since it seems that im the lone wolf trying to load 44 mag in my winchester 94ae



in any case i originally tried using titegroup- but that didnt work (even though they have a load number for it) because it burned WAY too fast (obviously)..... really i tried it just because i had it at the house.....

i have moved to accurate #9 since a local gunsmith said it was his go-to powder for 44mag........ but still have less than stellar performance, and HORRIBLE accuracy at 50 yards.

the gun is a new production (mid 90's) with very few rounds down its belly.
im using a lead sled DFT with weight- trying to eliminate human factor.
im using a chrony Gamma. temperatures are within 10 degrees of shooting every time i have gone, and altitude is the same.


using starline new brass.
remington non magnum primers.
hornady 225gn FTX #44105 boolits


here are some of my numbers:
accurate #9
17 grain avg FPS 1490

18.5 grain avg FPS 1565

19.5 grain avg FPS 1625

21.5 grain avg FPS 1740.

avg OEM leverevolutions are running 1840 and are pretty accurate- im "attempting" to make leverevolutions @ the house (obviously) much cheaper than if i bought them.

threw some winchester OEM flat nosed white box down its throat since i had them @ the range with me 240gns avg FPS 1760




i would be happy w/ the speed that the 21.5's are giving me if the damn thing was more accurate- seriously @ 50 yards benchrested its making 10-12" groups. that sucks!

i guess i should ask, what would the accuracy be expected of this gun and caliber first

 

[rcmodel]

At 50 yards benchrested, a carbine should shoot nearly one-hole groups if you can.

I'd probably suggest Alliant 2400, or better yet H110/W296, or N110 if you are trying to duplicate factory loads.

rc

 

[halogrinder]

i have read mixed reviews on W296- its full throttle or nothing...... and lots of people using 2400.... wonder if i should ditch this #9 idea and go get a lb of 2400 and start over??



21.4 of 2400 with a 225gn bullet in a pistol is looking around 1500.... im assuming adding 300or so FPS for a rifle.....


i too would assume that a benchrested (practically) anything @ 50 yards should net you at least something sub 4" lol

im not the BEST shot in the world, but i can definately hold my own when it comes to most people i meet.......

 

[buck460XVR]

A 240 gr Nosler JSP or Hornady XTP over a good dose of H110/W296 is what my revolvers and carbines prefer. Tried the 225 redtips when they first came out and saw no advantage whatsoever over what I was already using. Never did get them to shoot as accurately as the other bullets and at legitimate .44 mag range, saw no ballistic advantage of the red tip. Had a 'ell of a time gettin' the red tip bullets to seat consistently also, I believe this was part of my accuracy issues with them.

 

[halogrinder]

i have other boolits im going to be shooting thru this gun, but wanted to start with something that i knew shot good (factory leverevolutions) i have some lead 330's, 240's and 265's i want to see how they run as well....

 

[CraigC]

Any good pistol cartridge levergun should do 1"@50yds. Some will do that at 100yds but it's the exception. I would also suggest 2400 and H110/296 for your experiments. Standard primers for 2400 and magnum for H110/296. However, shooting 10-12" really makes me wonder. If it doesn't do far better with the above-mentioned powders, something is going on with either your rifle or your handloads.....or both.

hornady 225gn FTX #44105 boolits

PS, the term "boolit" was coined by the folks at http://castboolits.gunloads.com to differentiate their home grown cast bullets from commercial cast bullets. So it's not really applicable to any jacketed bullet. Cast "boolit" shooters will defend their use of this term to the death. Silly but there it is.

 

[halogrinder]

sorry for playing with words


FWIW, winchester white box 44mag bullets will group approx 1-2" depending

 

[rcmodel]

i have read mixed reviews on W296- its full throttle or nothing

Well, if you are trying to match the 1,840 FPS factory loads like I thought you said you wanted to do?

It's going to have to be more "Full Throttle" then "nothing"!

It is actually going to be very hard to match the factory load velocity.

Hornady loads those bullets in shortened cases, using propriority powder you can't get for reloading.
There is a new Leverevolution rifle powder from Hodgdon, but so far none for the handgun calibers like your .44 Mag.

rc

 

[halogrinder]

lol, no your correct on that statement, but getting up to that speed is what i was talking about (starting low)

 

[rcmodel]

No problem with getting there.

Here is safe load data direct from Hornady.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/44RemMagFTXRifle.pdf

Note highest velocity is attained with Lil' Gun, next highest with H110 / W296, which are now the exact same powder.

rc

 

[halogrinder]

i wonder how accurate that PDF is.....


my 17gn loads were what their 14.7 "max" load is..... and i went to 21.5 with #9.
the other thing i find interesting is how their factory stuff seems faster than their reloading stuff..... i guess its the difference between my 94ae and that 1894??

 

[rcmodel]

i find interesting is how their factory stuff seems faster than their reloading stuff

Read post #8 again.
I think I made an addition to it after you read it.

BTW: Hornady is well known for very conservative load data too.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

H110/296 with an XTP will absolutely get it done. That powder, even at the lower end of the listed data, will rock your world, not to mention everything else. Accuracy is excellent in my experience with everything I load with it. So far as slow burning powder's are concerned, this is probably at the top of the list which is a major contributing factor regarding great accuracy and velocities.
Another super slow burning powder I've been hearing good things about is Power Pro 300MP. I haven't personally tried it yet, but the reviews have been pretty good with reports that it has a lower working pressure with heavier bullets than H110/296.

 

[halogrinder]

@ rc- your right i didnt catch your edit.


looks like imma go to the store and snag some 296 and put this 1/2 lb of #9 in the back of the cabinet for some .357 loads or something.

 

[TheCracker]

20 grains of 2400 and a nosler or magtech 240 g jsp will shoot one raged hole out of my marlin 1894 with a scope all day @50 yards.

I've never chrony'd it (I do have a chrony though and should) but it shoots a tad bit better than factory. With the same POI.

So another vote for 2400!

 

[ssyoumans]

I like both 2400 and 296 with the Hornady XTP hollowpoint. I get 1 large hole at 50 yards and a 4x32 Simmons scope. No complaints here.

Out of my Marlin 1894:
20.0gr 2400 with 240gr XTP was good for 1689fps. Hornady lists 21.2gr as max, but I've never loaded any hotter and was pleased with the results.

Using 24.0gr 296 with same bullet, 1771fps. Depending on the sources, I've seen 24.0-24.8gr as max, but I stopped at 24.0 without any signs of overpressure. Again, pleased with the results. I've never chrono'd the factory loaded XTPs, can seem to justify buying 20 for nearly the cost of loading up 100.

When ya pick up that new powder, pick up some 240gr XTPs too.

As always, verify and work up your loads to make sure they are safe. Happy shooting!

 

[murf]

and some magnum primers, too!

murf

 

[halogrinder]

really? you think ill need to switch to magnum primers? i supose so lol.... i have been checking my primers for buldging, none shown so far.


im trying to load with what i have (2 boxes of FTX's @ 225's, some 240gn midway hollowpoints, and some 330gn cast's w/ checks.)

 

[TheCracker]

ive never used magnum primers with 2400, its not listed in any recipies ive seen for it

 

[TooManyToys]

Another powder you may want to try is IMR 4227.
I have had very good results with it as a 44 mag revolver powder.

 

[murf]

if you are going to snag some w296, i suggest you also snag some magnum primers (i like cci 350s in my 44mag). more consistent burn. if you don't want to get the mag primers, 2400 is a good powder choice. as usual, start low and work up on your load.

murf

 

[kelbro]

I am another one that has never been able to get the 225gr to shoot well in either my 7.5" SBH Bisley Hunter or my 1894. 240, 265, 310 grainers all shoot very well.