.45-120 or .50-90

[ExAgoradzo]

If you had access to these (replica) rifles, which would you choose and why?
1. I have a .45-70 so the 120 makes sense to keep it all in the family so to speak.
2. I don't have any .50 cal so 'going big' makes sense.

I don't know (if I ever live in a Free State) if these rifles would count as 'black powder' for hunting season. (Truthfully, if they don't count, then I probably won't take either.).

The rifles are equally 'nice': no significant wear. Both come with a little brass and a mold (again, I'd need to live in a FS...!). Replicas that I've never shot. Of course the mold makes me solidly lean towards the .45 since I have a GBL.

Please don't simply say 'take both': not an option. I either get one/other/neither. I'm not convinced I'm going to buy either, but thought I'd ask my friends who know more than I about these calibers.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Greg

 

[Bushpilot]

You didn't mention which model of rifle you are looking at, but I'm going to assume it's a Sharps, a High Wall or something similar. I'd go with the 45-120, especially if I was going to shoot it much. I don't think these are going to qualify for most black powder/ muzzle loader or primitive hunting seasons, at least not in the areas I hunt in or am familiar with but not being real familiar other states regs I easily could be wrong.

 

[JeffG]

If one were a Sharps, and one were a rolling block, personal preference for me would be the Sharps. 45/120 is going to be more familiar for you handloading, and the components will be more available. As far as I know, most blackpowder cartridge guns in most states, are classified as just cartridge guns for hunting.

 

[tallpaul]

I do not believe that a breech loader is considered "blackpowder" as in muzzle loader season... I think one of the southern states has a "primitive season" where it may apply for extra hunting. I believe Many states allow hunting with one during regular "gun season" you would have to check the states regs.

 

[entropy]

If you're choosing on caliber alone, the .45-120. That said, it would help to know which guns they are.....

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Pretty sure most states "primitive" hunting seasons mention muzzle loaders, not powder type. Those "low sulfur" pellets I see people using today are stretching the limit of what you can call black powder.
Me I'd go with the 50-90. It is the real "big fifty" mentioned in the buffalo hunter sstores.And it's just cool.

 

[.308 Norma]

I don't know (if I ever live in a Free State) if these rifles would count as 'black powder' for hunting season. (Truthfully, if they don't count, then I probably won't take either.).

Sorry ExAgoradzo, but no. Not in Idaho anyway. They're both "black powder" rifles, but they're not muzzle loaders, and neither use an exposed cap or flint to set off the powder charge. Therefore, either rifle will get you arrested if you try to hunt with it during a Primitive Weapon's Only Season (commonly called "Black Powder" Season).
Not that there's anything wrong with hunting with either rifle during regular rifle (and handgun) season. Either rifle will do nicely for any animal in North America, and with practice, a second, follow-up shot (if necessary) is hardly any slower than a second, follow-up shot with a modern-day bolt action.
BTW, neither rifle is eligible for the regular black powder shooting competitions at Mountain Man Rendezvous either. At the rendezvous, they occasionally have a special, Black Powder Cartridge Rifle category, but it's separate from the regular "front stuffer" categories.

 

[Jimster]

Go for the "Big Fifty". Big medicine.

 

[salt&battery]

if they are sharps rifle or the rolling block and fire big rounds like that they are probably over 12 lbs. that is a lot to carry. most guys get weak kneed if a rifle weighs over 7 .5 lbs

 

[Dog Soldier]

The Breech Loaders are not considered primitive here. I have shot and hunted with Sharps and Remington Rollers for year during regular rifle season.
My experience over the years is the Sharps .45-110-535 or .45-70. The .45-110 paper patch chamber will handle the .45-70, .45-90 or .45-100.
The .45-120 never produced by Sharps is a reloader's nightmare. It is also difficult to load with smokeless. The .40 and .45 calibers are my preferences. I have the .50-70 in a "Roller" this is a good caliber. My old .45-110-535 with the Lyman Postell has taken most Western Big Game. I prefer the 2/F BP loads over smoke less. I cast the Lyman Postell bullets 40 to 1. My 6X power John Malcolm Scope is zeroed at 300 yards.
http://www.bpcr1885.net/bullets-reloading-spotting-scope-and-more/

 

[salt&battery]

The Breech Loaders are not considered primitive here. I have shot and hunted with Sharps and Remington Rollers for year during regular rifle season.
My experience over the years is the Sharps .45-110-535 or .45-70. The .45-110 paper patch chamber will handle the .45-70, .45-90 or .45-100.
The .45-120 never produced by Sharps is a reloader's nightmare. It is also difficult to load with smokeless. The .40 and .45 calibers are my preferences. I have the .50-70 in a "Roller" this is a good caliber. My old .45-110-535 with the Lyman Postell has taken most Western Big Game. I prefer the 2/F BP loads over smoke less. I cast the Lyman Postell bullets 40 to 1. My 6X power John Malcolm Scope is zeroed at 300 yards.
http://www.bpcr1885.net/bullets-reloading-spotting-scope-and-more/

View attachment 231796

real nice rifle but the back of it looks like a sharps and the front like a hawken lol. what kind of rifle is it. not familiar with most of them but many sharps rifles I saw did not have a loading rod under the barrel

 

[jim in Anchorage]

real nice rifle but the back of it looks like a sharps and the front like a hawken lol. what kind of rifle is it. not familiar with most of them but many sharps rifles I saw did not have a loading rod under the barrel

You got it I really am not sure what I'm looking at. Interesting scope though.

 

[Bushpilot]

Nice looking rifle you have there Dog Soldier....

 

[TRX]

> I do not believe that a breech loader is considered "blackpowder" as in muzzle loader season

Various states have different wording. Most of them appear to have been intended to refer to black powder muzzle-loaders, but they're poorly worded by legislators who don't know what they're talking about.

Examples would be:

"black powder", which might include cartridge rifles

"muzzle loading", which might include use of smokeless powder in muzzle-loaders

"smooth bore", generally intended to mean "shotgun", but at least one northern gunsmith had a profitable sideline reaming the rifling out of .308s and 7mms for "minute of deer" shooting

maximum cartridge case lengths, intended to require use of antique or pistol ammo, which has spawned a new generation of wildcats

straight case cartridges, as above


For states with muzzle loading black powder regulations, there were rifles like the muzzle loading variant of the SKS, which, if anything, hints at a nose candy problem or a great sense of humor in the People's Liberation Army's manufacturing arm...

 

[Robert]

Here in CO the black powder cartridge rifles can not be used in muzzle loader season. That being said I'd love to have a Sharps in 45-90 or 45-110. Just to have . Shiloh and C Sharps make some mighty fine rifles.

Edit:
Forgot to answer your question. Of the two I'd take the 45 3 1/4 (120). The bullets you can cast for it might work in the 45/70 but it may need lighter (shorter) rounds.

 

[Dog Soldier]

real nice rifle but the back of it looks like a sharps and the front like a hawken lol. what kind of rifle is it. not familiar with most of them but many sharps rifles I saw did not have a loading rod under the barrel

That is a Sharps Gemmer. The Western Hunters preferred their Hawken Rifles. One reason being that cartridge cases often stuck in the chambers. They needed a ramrod to wipe bores and knock out stuck brass.
Sharps redesigned their rifles to look like a Hawken/Plains Rifle complete with an under barrel ram rod. This was a more acceptable and very popular Sharps. The .40-82 was a popular Bison round. Most all of the professional hunters used the German scopes. The John Malcolm was also very popular. These were all external adjustment scopes. They are rugged and dependable.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

They are Both Sharps 1874 Hunters the .50-90 has 'Old Reliable' on it.

I just looked them up, If I'm looking at this right they're both $1600 rifles!? That can't be right?! I was thinking $3-400 range. That will make the decision a lot easier...

Thanks guys.
Greg

 

[Robert]

It depends on who made them. C Sharps, Shiloh or some of the other high end makers, then yes their rifles can go for $1600, or more.

 

[Coyote3855]

The Pedersoli Sharps replicas are $1200 and up to $2500 these days, depending on the model.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The DP&S rifles are wining the matches. They have a better barrel than the Badger barrels. DP&S uses the original choke bored gain twist barrels of the 1870s in their High end models.

 

[highlander 5]

If you don't already know brass for those 2 cartridges aren't cheap. I believe that Starline is the only source of ready to use brass. 45/120 is probably the easier of the 2 as far as costs for dies,casting equipment etc.

 

[RPRNY]

45-120, while it may have existed back in the day, is the sort of rifle owned by a gentleman who would be referred to as "all hat and no cattle". It is an exaggeration. Does it come with a certified genuine buffalo hunters outfit and faux fur batwing chaps?

I have never shot a 50-90 but, of the two, that would be my preference.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I buy the Norma BP Cartridge brass. The Norma is far superior to the drawn brass . The Norma .45-110 is $4.00 dollars per round. A popular load for the .50-90 Sharps is 110 grs of 2/F and a Smith 720 grs bullet. The MRT at 1,700 yards is 5 miles.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

'MRT'?

Wow! Just did some more reading...I figured that this was simply reloading with Pyrodex instead of smokeless. I was wrong. I'd be happy to shoot one, but I'm going to pass by.

Greg

 

[.308 Norma]

'MRT'?

Wow! Just did some more reading...I figured that this was simply reloading with Pyrodex instead of smokeless. I was wrong. I'd be happy to shoot one, but I'm going to pass by.

Greg

Wise choice. I really like mine, but BPCRs aren't everyone's cup of tea anymore than ARs, 1911s, or pre-64 Model 70s.