.45 1911 vs .44 Redhawk as Wilderness Gun

[dubious]

Another thread got me thinking about wilderness guns. In general I use my 5.5" .44 Mag Ruger as my main Big Honkin wilderness gun. However, I'm waiting for the arrival of my Springfield 1911 Loaded in Stainless. Even though this is my target gun, it's going to definitely be pressed into service as a heavier wilderness gun for a good while. What do you think the advantages and disadvantages of them will be? I'm not worried about bears.

I don't have time to post all my opinions on the subject, so let me just list a few that are obvious to me. Feel free to expound on them:

1. They are both heavy... 38 oz 1911 vs 49 oz Redhawk.
2. In my mind, the .45 acp is considered less than ideal for deer hunting... I'm curious what people think about this.
3. I'll be carrying the 1911 condition 3... an obvious disadvantage.

 

[TAB]

is a 1911 legal to hunt with in your state?

 

[dubious]

I don't know if it is legal to hunt with a .45 acp in Cali. The truth is I'm not inclined to hunt with it, but I'm curious what the capabilities are regardless... I wouldn't hunt with it if it wasn't legal. I'll look into it.

 

[TAB]

I beleave( and I might be wrong about this) the min barrel lenght is 4" and it needs to be center fire and using none FMJ ammo. a well placed 45 acp, will take any thing in CA( so will a 22 for that mater), that does not mean it should be used.

 

[Snapping Twig]

IIRC, a 6" .357 is the minimum pistol for hunting in California. Any size barrel in a larger caliber is OK.

Things change and it's possible that this is out of date, but that's how I remember it.

 

[.44 magnuholic]

Considering the round capacity isn't far off, and the obvious advantage of the .44 magnum as a hunting load, I'd go ahead and go with the Ruger. I'd always take a revolver over any semi auto in the wilderness.

Then again though, I live my life by the Elmer Keith philosophy. Bigger is always better.

 

[dubious]

Yep... I do realize that the .44 is a better wilderness gun. I've seen a deer shot twice with a glock 17 using uber high tech +P Corbons.... and the deer ran off and disappeared. I never want THAT to happen to me.

I'm also a reloader, and I'm well aware that what I call "Powder Puff" .44 rounds are actually very similar to .45 acp rounds. So I'm not planning on hunting a deer with a.45. However, if I do find that it is legal in Cali, and I happen to be out in the woods and a deer steps right in front of me and stands still at 7 yards, I may think about taking a shot. Basically, a broadside front chest / shoulder/ head shot should work... it's only front or rear angles that you need the maximum penetration of a strong .44 Mag round... right?

Anyway my friend with the 9mm shot it broadside at 7 yards in the rear hip leg area... that poor deer. I was very upset that night thinking about its gruesome gut shot fate. All the more reason to NOT take the shot unless I have a .44 mag.

 

[ArmedBear]

IIRC, a 6" .357 is the minimum pistol for hunting in California. Any size barrel in a larger caliber is OK.

Not true. Not even close to accurate. A .38 Airweight with JHP's can be used to hunt deer. For elk, you need a 4" barrel. That's it. I'm not recommending doing that, but it's perfectly legal. The standard-length 1911 in .45ACP with expanding bullets is legal for all big game in California. A good idea? Usually not. Trajectory isn't the best. But legal? Absolutely.

If you want to use it like you might use a bow, there's no reason not to. For longer-range shots, the .44 is the only way to go.

CA Fish and Game Regulations

Subsection 353

(c) Pistols and revolvers using centerfire cartridges
with softnose or expanding bullets may
be used to take deer, bear, and wild pigs.
(d) Pistols and revolvers with minimum barrel
lengths of 4 inches, using centerfire cartridges
with softnose or expanding bullets may be used
to take elk and bighorn sheep

See http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/06-07-mammal-regs.pdf

 

[jpsimms]

One thing that I did not see mentioned here is the reliability factor in a revolver. They handle dirt, mud, rain and whatever else the wilderness may throw at you better than a semi-auto, and with less maintenance.
And I would go for the bigger round personally.

My vote is for the redhawk .44

 

[.44 magnuholic]

I still have 10+ boxes of Black Talon in .44 magnum. I realize SXT pretty much the same thing, but I don't know if they make SXT in .44 mag. These seem to do a very good job on South Texas Whitetail.

There are really countless ways that a revolver in that caliber is a better option. Another one is the fact that if you lose your magazine, you're sol out in the woods.

 

[svtruth]

Iirc

the ballistics of the .45 ACP are comparable to .44spl. The .44 offers a wider variety of loadings, especially if you reload.
But I'm no espert.
Good luck.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

1. They are both heavy... 38 oz 1911 vs 49 oz Redhawk.

Take it from an old Infantryman and long-time backpacker, that additional 11 ounces will begin to tell on you.

2. In my mind, the .45 acp is considered less than ideal for deer hunting... I'm curious what people think about this.

Deer have been taken with the .45 ACP, but if you are hunting, chooseyour gun specifically for that purpose.

3. I'll be carrying the 1911 condition 3... an obvious disadvantage.

Why? I carry in Condition 1 all the time. When I carry an M1911 afield, it's usually in a GI holster -- but still in Condition 1.

 

[rcmodel]

They handle dirt, mud, rain and whatever else the wilderness may throw at you better than a semi-auto,

That was proven not to be the case in WWI & WWI, and Vietman, and ----

Assuming the gun is going to get wet & full of mud & dirt, the 1911 is the clear winner here.

You can at least take it apart bare-handed, and at least keep it cleaned enough to keep it functioning.

Try that will a revovler full of mud.

rcmodel

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
They handle dirt, mud, rain and whatever else the wilderness may throw at you better than a semi-auto,

That was proven not to be the case in WWI & WWI, and Vietman, and ----

Assuming the gun is going to get wet & full of mud & dirt, the 1911 is the clear winner here.

You can at least take it apart bare-handed, and at least keep it cleaned enough to keep it functioning.

Try that will a revovler full of mud.

In Viet Nam, the Army issued .38 Special revolvers to helicopter crewmen. I saw revolvers disintigrate into junk. On the other hand, I carried an M1911A1 on the ground, in some of the worst conditions you can imagine, and it came out looking like it did the day it was issued, and never failed.

(Caviat here -- I carried a Colt M357 my first tour. But it was my gun, not an arms room clunker, and I treated it right.)

 

[BlindJustice]

Thanks RIck for stomping on the mis-guided thought of a
Revo full of mud in the middle of the wilderness being as easily
cleaned and put back into action as a 1911. sheeish.

1911 - lose a mag well, 1 - carry more than one mag. and 2) no
magazine disconnect so it's still a single shot.

1911 - .22 LR Conversion kit

1911 - .400 CorBon Drop In barrel for some flatter shooting
10MM cal. rounds say Hornady XTP JHPs 155 gr @ 1350 FPS

1911 - .45 ACP Shotshells is about a draw with the .44 Mag
having the same CCI/Speer #9 shot shells.

When it's said Wilderness - I don't think hunting more like a good
ways away from a gun smith or even Fish & game badges.

 

[bigdaddydan]

I would go with the ruger super redhawk .44mag get's my vote

 

[dubious]

.400 Corbon Drop in Barrel? Ok, now I'm drooling! I must go look this up... would that make a better hunting platform?

Basically, I love my redhawk .44 mag... it points well for me and I'm getting pretty darn good with it. My favorite thing about it is its huge versatility for me as a reloader. But it's almost as if our dear lord John Moses Browning designed the 1911 just for me. For me, it points perfectly. If I close my eyes and point the gun... when I open them it is perfectly sighted. When the gun finishes recoiling, it is again perfectly sighted. I don't even need to pay attention to the rear sights... it aims itself.

If only the .45acp had the same veraatility as the .44 mag...

 

[owlhoot]

If you are going afield specifically to hunt deer size game, then obviously the .44 mag is the better choice.

But, if you just want a companion for hikes in the boonies, I'd go with the .45 just for the lighter weight. Although my favorite "boonie" gun is a M-19 or 66, 4". It offers reasonably light weight and great versatility.

 

[trickyasafox]

the 1911 is not limited for power
400 corbon, is only a barrel and spring away
and 45super is only a recoil spring away

the lighter firearm will feel better in the long run- but go with what carries more comfortably for you.

 

[BlindJustice]

.400 CorBon Primer for Dubious

.400 CorBon is a necked down .45 ACP case to handle .401/10 MM bullets
it headspaces on the 25 degree shoulder. CorBon's Peter Pi came up with this concept and it was released in 1997. He theorized a lighter bullet at higher velocity would have approximately the same recoil as a +P 230 gr. .45
ACP. While the .400 CorBon is very close to 10MM Auto in bullet weights up to 165 gr. it's short neck and short case limits 180 gr. or greater bullet performance in velocity. Jan. 2000 CorBon changed the brass case to use a small pistol primer but a handloader can form .400 CorBon cases from .45 ACP cases. I don't know why the change to the smaller primers. Starline brass makes .400 CorBon brass cases. I think some theorized CorBon was loading it to 26.500 C.U.P. but I stated that on a forum and a rep. from CorBon corrected me and said SAAMI rated .400 COrBon the same as .45 ACP
+P at 23,000 C.U.P. SOme 1911s require a 20 or 22 lb recoil spring change but that's the only thing it needs, it runs with the same magazines
-and- it has a good rep in accuracy because the barrel has the same Outside
diameter as a .45 ACP barrel.... it's a thick essentially Bull barrel.

I got my barrel, High quality stainless steel .400 CorBon from Jarvis Inc. out of Hamilton Montana. Bill Jarvis has offered these barrels since the inception of the .400 CorBon introduction in 1997. It was with the link installed and S&H $245

I found a source for .400 CorBon that is about 65 cents a round but CorBOn
charges something like $1.20 a round.

The loads I have in stock are
155 gr. SPeer Gold Dot JHPs @ 1,400 FPS and
155 gr. hornady XTP JHPs @ 1,350 FPS

Reeds Ammunition & Research Oklahoma CIty OK
ROn Reed also offers some 135 gr. and 165 gr. loads

I think balllistically it shoots as flat as the magnums
out to 100 yards 8-9" drop vs 12-13" drop for the
slower moving .45 ACP.

Makes me want to get adjustable sights for my 1911.

 

[Walkalong]

1911 - Redhawk

Too tough to decide. Can I have both?

Oh, and I'll bring my .400 Corbon barrel too.

Seriously. A 1911, which is what I logged many a mile with in the woods and swamps here in Alabama.

 

[dubious]

Now that I've been reading about the .400 corbon, I also found out about the .460 rowland conversion. Holy smokes! That thing seems pretty deer worthy. But I'm a little scared of it. It can supposedly push a 230 gr bullet at 1340 fps. That is definitely up in the deer hunting realm... but will it blow up in my face?
http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm


Naturally, since I'm a reloader, any of these unusual calibers are practical enough.

 

[TAB]

your not going to be happy with the life expectancy of your 1911 with a 460 and high power loads. ( same goes with 45 super.)

 

[BlindJustice]

Dubious you may have read this...

THe .400 CorBon seems to not do well in a double stack magazine
like a P14 Para Ordnance for feeding.

FYI - I have a S&W 1911 5" Bbl. Stainless Steel frame & Slide. I also
shoot a S&W 625 5" Bbl. .45 ACP full Moon Clips as well as .45 Auto RIm.

STarline brass for .400 CorBon as well as .45 Auto rim only runs about $7-$8more per 500 of new brass compared to .45 ACP.

and... .400 COrBon like the .357 Sig. the necked down .40 S&W for some reason is LOUD - shoot either at the range and guys come over and ask *** are you shooting out of that 1911.... grin.

Reloading - since it headspaces on the shoulder brass stretch may limit the number of reloads ]

 

[BlindJustice]

yeah, to the life expectancy of a .460 Roland in a 1911

IMHO - the.400 CorBon is enough to stretch the range and punch
but still have the .45 ACP option as well as a .22 LR conversion kit
and have the carry weight of a Redhawk for out and about....