The Race for the Best Wilderness Gun

[Joey2]

Elmer Keith was asked if he could only have one gun what would it be. He said that he would pick what he always carries- S&W .44mag. I believe a model 65?

He said he could shoot from birdshot on up.

I tend to agree, but I don't own a .44 yet. Right now I'll make do with my S&W Mdl. 19 or my Ruger Security Six, both with 6" bbl's.

 

[trickyasafox]

im not in bear country, but for where i travel i dont think a 357 mag can be beat

 

[munk]

Vern Humphrey; Why no heavy hardcast in the Ruger Sp101? Chambers too short for a long OAL with a 180 gr hardcast? Fortunately, there are many 357's around with ample frame size.


munk

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't have my daughter's SP 101 here to measure, but you may be right that the chambers are too short to take a 180-grain bullet (which is what Shoemaker recommends.)

What I had in mind was recoil, which would negate one of his criteria (that the gun be capable of fast follow up shots) and would also change point of impact (this being a fixed sight gun.)

I'd take my Colt M357 if I needed a 180 grain bullet at a max load.

 

[munk]

Smith's 8 shot N frame 357 would be good.


munk

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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Smith's 8 shot N frame 357 would be good.
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A long time ago, Savage had a motto for their automatic pistol, "Ten Shots Quick."

They tried to get Uncle Billy Tilghman (Oklahoma's Marshall of the Last Frontier) to carry one, as an endorsement. He asked why, and they explained about Ten Shots Quick.

Uncle Billy thought it over and said, "It's been my experience, if you can't do it with six, you can't do it."

 

[munk]

I noticed Clint Eastwood's character- the retired FBI guy with a murder victim's heart- carried the N Frame 8 shot 357. I thought that a nice touch- sort of full circle for the law enforcement types he's portrayed.



munk

 

[Sir Aardvark]

First off, be the one in the middle of the group - that way, when the bear suddenly attacks from nowhere, it will target someone else in the front or back of the group.

All kidding aside, check out the 3" S&W Model 629's on this page:

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293546&sw_activeTab=1

The last 2 on the page are the Model 629 "Trail Boss" - they are ported, so shooting full power .44 mag rounds is easier on the shooter. Hard cast bullets out of these would be devasting to any North American, land-walking mammal.

I own 2 S&W 629's. One of them has a 6" barrel and it can sometimes hurt to shoot full power magnums through it. The other one is the "Trail Boss" and the porting reduces recoil almost by half.

For the more adventurist amongst us, there is always the lightweight S&W Model 329PD in Scandium/Titanium:

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293482&sw_activeTab=1

I've never shot one, but if the recoil is anything like a S&W 340PD (.357 mag), then it's going to hurt!. But.....it's lightweight.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Currently I carry a S&W 1006 loaded with 180gr Hornady XTP ammo but I'm not in a high threat area for bear. Only the 2 legged coyotes.

If I was living in an area up North with grizzlies I think I would be taking a long hard look at the recently introduced "Alaskan" in .454 Casull.

 

[TallPine]

My normal carry in black bear country used to be a 4" Sec Six in 357mag. Then I got a Vaquero in 45 colt (able to handle the high pressure loads) for occasional trips to grizzly country (and just because I wanted it ). In retrospect, I sorta wish I had just gotten a Blackhawk instead since the Vaqueros really aren't (or weren't) a SAA colt clone.

Since we moved out into the pineywood hills, I haven't been out on the NF much (no need to, really ). Around here (and around the house) I just carry the 357 for general protection since we rarely see bears. But if I go out on the NF again, I will carry the Vaquero "just because" ... and some of those black bears can get really big!

The one time we camped in western MT (Big Hole area), a couple of Rangerettes (cute, too ) stopped by to warn us that there were grizzlies active in the area. I said that we were aware of being in grizzly country and were watching out, but I didn't point out the 45 under my untucked wool shirt

IMO, the best "bear" handgun is the one that you are comfortable with, providing it is at least a 44 magnum or equivalent. It's just another chance anyway - if attacked, you may not have time to even draw and fire a shot, or you might have time to fire a warning shot into the ground and save both yourself and the bear. I am starting to think that a DA might be better than a SA revolver, just because you can find thumbreak holsters for a DA.

A short barreled rifle or shotgun is still the best, as long as it is in your hands. But a handgun will (or can) be with you when you are cooking over a fire, setting up a tent, etc ...

FYI, I have seen lots of black bears in the wild and have never even been threatened. But they are dangerous predators and not cuddly pets. It only takes one bear to eat you and ruin your whole day. Bears' hearing and eyesight are not that extraordinary, and I have both accidently and deliberately gotten pretty close to black bears. My grizzly experience is limited to following fresh dinner-plate sized tracks down a trail through an alder thicket on a back-packing trip in Alaska (was carrying a shotgun on that excursion)

 

[munk]

The new Vaqueros will be smaller, right? This means less pressure for the warmed up Colt, I'm thinking. That older Vaquero you got is easy to pull with its smoothed frame edges, points nice, handles the same pressures as the reg Blkhk, and is a good thing.

munk

 

[JNewell]

recommends a .357 -- albeit with a heavy cast bullet, which would call for a heavier revolver than the SP 101

What I had in mind was recoil, which would negate one of his criteria (that the gun be capable of fast follow up shots) and would also change point of impact (this being a fixed sight gun.)

I spent some time last fall working on heavy 180 gr loads in a M66 and a Security Six and I am here to tell you that Vern has his finger on a real issue. These guns weigh roughly 32-33 ounces; the ~2" SP101 (which I own one of also) weighs 24 ounces, if I recall correctly.

I don't think of myself as recoil-sensitive. On the one hand, I fire heavy .44 Mag and .454 Casull loads and don't mind them. On the other, I shoot the Al/Ti S&W J frames. I have not shot anything, though, that recoiled as much or felt as punishing as those heavy 180 gr loads in the K-Frame/SS. I would not care to fire them in a revolver that was almost half a pound lighter...but, as they say, YMMV.

 

[s&w 24]

another vote for 357. Most people can't shoot a big bore revolver quickly and accuratly and if you do it's practice that makes it happen and 38 spec is just the thing for high volume practice. Also Phil Shoemaker and Ross Sefried have carried 357's for there back woods guns and they have shot more wild game than most of the members of this forum by a bit.

However If one must have a DA bigbore a 44 mag will suit most pistolero's better than a 480 or larger and you would not be under gunned in any way IF you put your bullets were they count.

 

[munk]

The thing about a 180 gr 357 mag is you have decent math on it for a handgun round- Sectional density. So at the relatively moderate velocities you'd get good penetration. Probably a deal where it performs better than it's energy rating would suggest. There are lots of cartridge/bullet combos that do.


munk

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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another vote for 357. Most people can't shoot a big bore revolver quickly and accuratly and if you do it's practice that makes it happen and 38 spec is just the thing for high volume practice. Also Phil Shoemaker and Ross Sefried have carried 357's for there back woods guns and they have shot more wild game than most of the members of this forum by a bit.
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Amen, and amen. My "big" revolvers are .45 Colts. The Ruger Blackhawk is not what you'd choose for rapid fire. The Colt New Service -- with my standard 255 grain bullet at 1,000 fps -- is simply uncontrolable in double action (for me, anyway.) I can get off a second shot faster by cocking and shooting single action.

Quote:
-----------------------------
The thing about a 180 gr 357 mag is you have decent math on it for a handgun round- Sectional density. So at the relatively moderate velocities you'd get good penetration. Probably a deal where it performs better than it's energy rating would suggest. There are lots of cartridge/bullet combos that do.
-----------------------------

I've cast and shot 180 grain loads in my Colt M357. With a stiff charge of H110, I can get nearly 1300 fps -- and I have no doubt that bullet (heat treated, of course) will go through any critter I point it at.

 

[Camp Cook]

I have been working in the bush for several years now and I'm licenced to carry handguns for protection. Just this last year I was within 50 yards of over 70 black bears, the closest being less then 10 yards away.

The smallest caliber that I carry is 10mm in either a Colt Delta Elite with a 6" Barsto barrel or a Glock 20 with a 5" KKM barrel. The loads that I carry are 190gr Sierra FPJ or 200gr Hornady XTP's @ app. 1300fps. I find that I started to only carry the 10mm's during the winter month's when the big bears where sleeping or when I'm jumping in and out of my truck all day.

I also have 2 s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero's in 45 Colt that I carry when I went into areas that had big blacks or grizzlies(only one gun at a time). My 45 Colt carry loads are 300gr XTP's or 330gr Jae-Bok Young hard cast bullets @ app. 1300fps. I never felt to comfortable carrying the Bisley's because they are single actions and if I ever had to reload the gun I would never be able to reload the it fast enough.

Which is why I now carry a 7.5" Ruger SRH in 454 Casull most of the time now. My carry loads are either 240gr XTP/MAG's @ 1900fps, 300gr XTP'MAG's, 300gr Gold Dot's or 330gr Jae-Bok Young's hard casts @ 1600fps when I'm in black bear country. When I'm in grizzly country I don't mess around I load 360gr Cast Performance hard cast bullets @ 1520fps or 395gr C/P hard casts @ 1420fps.

I have never had to shoot a bear in defense yet but if I have to it is going to be with the most powerful handgun/load that I can shoot fast.

Which brings me to this practice, practice, practice.............

I not only do draw and dry fire drills but I do alot of draw and live fire drills as well. I practice with my day pack or back pack on as well. I also practice shooting with both hands or one handed. Try shooting a 454 with your weak hand "WOW" what an experience........

 

[munk]

Camp Cook; If you live in BC, how is it you can carry a handgun at all?

Also, did you stumble across a Black Bear Convention, that there were 70 bears there?

I have a Colt Delta Elite I'm very fond of.




munk

 

[bobby68]

"who is faster, superman or the flash?"

My brother and I solved this a long time ago... The flash is faster. Superman is only faster than a speeding bullet.

 

[munk]

This was a real problem in the DC universe; they gave Superman so much he could do everything other super hero's could- the Martian whatever- was supposed to be his equal but had one weakness which made him inferior to Superman. I hardly can see why they tolerated Wonder Woman. Good to look at.

About this time the Flash was a little faster, and had more finese. I remember Superman VS Batman, too.




munk

 

[Mannlicher]

I live in South Florida. I hike in the Everglades, over in the Big Cyprus area, and I hike up in North Florida, in some of the National Forrests. I really don't worry about bears, or large cats, though were are a few of both. Snakes, are more of a worry, and for that reason, I often packed the old S&W model 34 .22/32 kit gun.
Time was, when snakes, or Gators were the worst things you could run up against, but over the past few years, two legged critters are more of a threat. Most of this is due to Marijuana growing. For that reason, I am more likely to pack a BHP .40 cal, or a .45 Commander, than the .22

 

[wanderinwalker]

I'm thinking a 4" .44 Magnum 629, Mountain Gun format would be perfect. I have a 6" 629-1 in the standard bull-barrel, and I find I can fire it fast enough in "panic" DA mode at the range that it might get scary if I was frightened! Though around here, a .357 would be adequate, I suspect, but I just prefer bigger bores. (And no, I do not nor will I ever consider a .357 Magnum a "big-bore" revolver!)