.45-70, lead bullets, and 4198

[Tallinar]

Anyone have much experience with 4198 and cast bullets in .45-70?

I recently acquired an H&R Buffalo Classic from another THR member. I loaded up a bunch of 405 gr LRN's over 35.0 gr of 4198. I had tried this same load out in my grandfather's old Winchester 86, and it seemed to digest them safely.

The Lyman #49 lists this load as a max load for Trapdoor rifles, and I believe the Buffalo Classic should be able to digest it without a problem. What do you think? Does 35 grains sound too ambitious to start with? I can manage the recoil, I just want to be sure it sounds safe for the gun.

 

[Maj Dad]

4198 is a great powder for the 45-70, but I would start out at less than the max load for any rifle. The H&R may be made with modern metallurgy, but it is still a weak action and yours might show high pressure with that load and could damage the rifle (or you!). It's an old horse carcass, but you must, repeat, must work up loads for your rifle lest you encounter dangerous pressures. There are those who damn the torpedoes & steam full ahead, but they are the ones who eventually run into one of those damned torpedoes. Load up some starting loads and work up to 35 before you go out & start shooting all the 35s. It's just good practice, and will make sure you keep your rifle and body parts intact.

All that said, my trapdoors (and Marlin 1895) shoot very well with 4198 and 3031 with jacketed & lead bullets and I don't think you will go wrong with either. Just use prudence and due diligence with your loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, even though your rifle should be able to fire a 35.0gr load safely it's always a good idea to work up to the Max every time you develop a new load for any rifle. Besides, that means you will have to shoot more and that's never a bad thing IMO...lol

 

[Afy]

Just use BP for the .455-70. I use 65 grains of 3FG. Works wonderfully.

 

[Tallinar]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah, I guess I should work up to it, even though I'm confident the gun could take it. Since it's a max load for Trapdoors, I was thinking it would be easy for the Buffalo Classic -- which is rated for lever gun loads -- to digest.

But at the same time, it's a bad practice to assume.

I think I'll cook up a few 30 gr and 33 gr loads and go from there.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

4570 smokless

Varget is a good powder, low psi,and in handloader listed 50 gr? w 405 and 1800 in 32in trapdoor. I have the issue somewhere,can't remember what no.
Also 65 gr fffg,030powder card,1,000+ w/bees wax to stiffen if necessary,have fun,shoots minute of deer neck at 100yds.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Not that there is anything wrong with 4198...

But H322 is quite good with 405-425 grain bullets...I like 50 grains under a 405, (appx. 38,000 psi per QuickLoad)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Are you guys really using FFFG in your 45-70 ammo? I always thought FFFG was for handgun rounds and FFG was for rifle rounds. Also, isn't 65gr a bit light especially for black powder? After all the round isn't names 45-70 for nothing!!

 

[Jefferson Herb]

They could get 70 gr ffg in old cases,drawn cases are thicker in the rim/head area;and you can only get 65 gr in the case w/o excessive compression of powder.If you're using std goex not swiss or goex express it's not as much punch.Most target shooters use Swiss,and are very serious about loads,and accuracy.
If in doubt,ask the bp cartrige shooters and take notes,many methods and procedures;some should be heeded for good loads and safety.

 

[fireman 9731]

I'm not encouraging throwing caution to the wind... But have maxed out "Ruger only" loads in my Buffalo Classic.

The action will open up when they get too heavy. I honestly think that the recoil force depresses the opening bar and thats what causes it. Either way, it was plenty enough for me and I shoot light Trailboss loads now.

 

[Tallinar]

Thanks for the reassurance fireman.

 

[Robert Palermo /Penn Bullets]

If you are doing long distance shoots with the Buffalo Classic of over 200 yard the 500 gr Sharps bullet will deliver far better accuracy than the 405 gr. bullets with Accurate 5744 which delivers black powder ballistics with a smokeless propelant that does not require a case filler and the powder is not position sensitive and was made for large bore cases.