45-70 Trapdoor Ammo

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jwl3715

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I'm interested in firing my original M1884 trapdoor Springfield. I plan to have it looked over by a smith first. I have some original brass and one box of original black powder ammo. Recently found http://www.starsandstripesammo.com/index2.html who will make 45-70 Government to trapdoor pressures with black powder. Here's a couple questions.
1. Anyone have experience with this outfit for reloading services or for ammunition supply. Opinions or experiences?
2. The gent at Stars and Stripes cautioned against using the original ammo due to the age of the black powder inside. I would tend to agree. Thoughts?
3. In the event that I don't fire the original ammo, I think what I have left is a nice collector's item. I'm curious about value. Anyone see original 45-70 ammo out there at gun shows etc? What ar ethey going for?
 
The original ammo is collectors stuff.The value is based mostly on the packaging.Is the box open? What condition is it in? type in ''cartridge collectors association'' in your search engine.Sportsman's guide has Ultramax .45-70 smokeless loaded black powder equivilent ammo loaded on Starline brass,which is perfect Trapdoor fodder. Ihave an 1884 rifle cut to carbine,and an H&R Cavalry carbine.Save that Starline brass.If you don't reload now,you soon will...45-70 is the easiest cartridge to load,and Lee makes a complete hand loading outfit,with excellent instructions,for about $20.00..45-70 costs about $30.00 a box of 20,or you can load it yourself for about six dollars a box,three dollars if you'll mold your own bullets.
 
There is nothing wrong with the black powder in an original .45-70, but the primer may have aged out and the bullet lube has dried up.
Original brass may or may not be reloadable with current components, depending on its age and source.
Keep it for show and tell and get some fresh stuff to shoot.
 
If you acquire any modern Factory Ammunition for your 45/70...make sure it is Black Powder....and, Lead Bullets and not 'Jacketed' types.


Easy Cartridge to re-load yourself...Brass and Bullets and Dies are all easy to get and not very expensive...
 
45-70 is one of the easiest black powder cartridges to load.

real Old Original cartridges were balloon head and shouldn't be fired for that reason.

You are fortunate that black powder cartridges are available. When I started, only old unreliable original cartridges were available with black powder. in fact it is probably easier to load 45-70 with black than smokeless.

i have several 45-70 rifles, the 1884 trapdoor is my favorite. Those Buffington sights are hard to beat.
 
Depending on the age and maker the old ammo could have mercuric primers that would weaken the casing or corrosive primers that would attack the firearm.

When it comes to reloading the 45-70 for Trapdoors, there is only ONE book needed.

http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

The third edition is now available. The authors worked with Lee Precision to create the mold for the hollow based bullet. I recommend that mold.

Trapdoors are good rifles and not nearly so weak as many would have you believe. However, the ballistics of hte original 45-70 need no improvement.
 
If you intend to load .45-70 consider Accurate 5744 powder as it is designed for use in large capacity cases using light loads to BP pressures and velocity. I have used it for years and have found it to be very accurate and using the minimum charges very light on the recoil. It does not have the smoke that BP has but it is very pleasant to shoot. The Accurate Powder web site gives you all the information you need. Give it a try and you will be pleased.
 
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I believe that any blackpowder arm should be shot with blackpowder only.
I would never consider using smokeless, although it may be safe.

I suggest you buy some new 45-70 brass and do your own BP reloading. It's fun, low cost & safe.

Hildo
 
Read Spence Wolf's book. Then read it again. Read it several times, it's not an easy read and you'll probably pick up stuff you missed the first time. My copy is falling to pieces.
 
When I shoot up the factory BP ammo I bought those will be the cases I use to reload BP. I just bought a set of dies also after shooting these cases I give the cases a good through cleaning.
 
There is nothing wrong with the black powder in an original .45-70, but the primer may have aged out and the bullet lube has dried up.
Click to expand...

Besides the factor of mercuric priming causing embrittlement of the brass, black powder becomes very unstable as it ages, and can detonate at the slightest concussion. As a rule, old original black powder cartridges should be handled very gingerly, and not shot.
 
gyvel said:
black powder becomes very unstable as it ages, and can detonate at the slightest concussion
Click to expand...
I don't believe that's correct. Please post a reference for your information.
 
I would think the primer would be the most unstable part of a cartridge. BP is famous for sitting in a loaded ML barrel and firing off 50-100 years later using a fresh cap or flint.
 
I don't believe that's correct. Please post a reference for your information.
Click to expand...

"Explosives (dynamite, black powder, blasting caps, etc.) deteriorate with age. They can be detonated by the slightest movement. Never handle explosives or blasting caps."--MSHA.gov

At any rate, it's something that I have read for years in articles/publications about black powder shooting. And my statement was in reference to 100+ year old black powder cartridges.
 
"Explosives (dynamite, black powder, blasting caps, etc.) deteriorate with age. They can be detonated by the slightest movement. Never handle explosives or blasting caps."--MSHA.gov

At any rate, it's something that I have read for years in articles/publications about black powder shooting. And my statement was in reference to 100+ year old black powder cartridges.
Click to expand...

The first cite is brought to you by the same .gov that is trying to remove the 2nd Amendment from your life.

As for 100 year old ammo, black powder is relatively stable. Unless the concussion causes excessive heat or a spark it will not blow up.

In my youth I shot at cans of the stuff trying to make it blow up and the only thing that work was 30-06 tracers. Even the 50-70 would not cause the can to ignite.
 
I agree w/BHP,45-70 is easy to load;may be difficult to get accuracy like you want it.
Once you have tools,load w/ 60 - 65 gr powder,.030-.060 wad,and bullet.
The experimenting begins as you have to find alloy of bullet,dia of bullet,weight and design of bullet,Brand and granulation of powder [ sometimes decided by availability ],type of lube,and crimp or no crimp.
I use 65 gr ffg or fffg goex,.060 wad,405 gr fn bullet lubed w 1000+ [ stiffened w/bees wax for hot weather ] . You can try the subs but I wont use the high priced stuff.
 
The first cite is brought to you by the same .gov that is trying to remove the 2nd Amendment from your life.
Click to expand...

Oh, absolutely; The Mine Safety and Health Administration is definitely in cahoots with the government when it comes to taking away our 2nd Amendment rights. Why, the very idea of making a mine safer for the men who work in them is tantamount to BATF knocking down your door and taking your guns away.

How dare they advise that black powder becomes unstable when very old!

Yes. I would say that you are very correct about black powder and you go ahead and play with all the 100+ year-old black powder cartridges you like.:banghead:
 
Well...old Style Kieselguhr/Nitroglycerin 'Dynamite', when 'weepy' is kinda 'iffy'...


Lol...


I really doubt Black Powder is in any way 'touchy' merely from age or time.
 
they are correct about old dynamite. The nitroglycerin leaches or migrates to the bottom and becomes more unstable due to its higher concentration.
 
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